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Post by nephillymike on May 25, 2019 13:59:09 GMT -5
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Post by eyrie on May 25, 2019 15:24:56 GMT -5
No.
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Post by eyrie on May 25, 2019 15:28:15 GMT -5
And I say that as someone who was a McNabb fan when he was an Eagle. He's certainly one of our best ever players, but he wasn't one of the best ever in the NFL at the time he retired which is what the Hall of Fame is about.
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Post by nephillymike on May 25, 2019 16:01:27 GMT -5
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Post by hankey on May 25, 2019 18:24:11 GMT -5
He doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame. That being said, the reason this is being discussed is because, once again, every time he opens his mouth the 40-50% of our douchebag fan base has to come out of the woodwork and act like he was worse than Bobby Hoying. I'm not calling you that, but in general I've seen a lot of social media hate towards him today.
He took a team featuring Pinkston, FredEx, and Trash to within 5 points of beating the 'greatest show on turf.' Every analyst in the country was predicting we would lose that game by 3 scores. At minimum. The spread was 10.5 - that's Vegas speak for an ass-whooping.
He gave our beloved JJ/Dawk defense a lead in the 4th quarter against the Cardinals, before they whizzed the game down their leg by allowing Kurt Warner a 14 play drive to leave no room for a comeback.
He played poorly against the Bucs for sure - Reid's play calling didn't help, nor did having Levon Kirkland as our MLB wandering aimlessly around the field instead of Trotter.
He got injured against Carolina - that was just a terrible game all around.
And when he had a legit receiver, we were damn near unstoppable and went to the Super Bowl. With DJax later on, he shoudl've beaten the Cards, and went 11-5 the following year before getting jettisoned.
3-4 years of throwing to TO and he would have HOF numbers. With a competent gameday coach he would have rings. But don't take my word for it, look at the 10 years since his time here - Andy Reid 2-6 in the playoffs. He was used as a Brady, and his strengths often weren't played to by his coach.
Just a damned shame. Oh well, at least we got our ring. Reid will never get his.
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Post by nephillymike on May 25, 2019 18:38:35 GMT -5
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Post by nephillymike on May 25, 2019 18:52:43 GMT -5
He doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame. That being said, the reason this is being discussed is because, once again, every time he opens his mouth the 40-50% of our douchebag fan base has to come out of the woodwork and act like he was worse than Bobby Hoying. I'm not calling you that, but in general I've seen a lot of social media hate towards him today. He took a team featuring Pinkston, FredEx, and Trash to within 5 points of beating the 'greatest show on turf.' Every analyst in the country was predicting we would lose that game by 3 scores. At minimum. The spread was 10.5 - that's Vegas speak for an ass-whooping. He gave our beloved JJ/Dawk defense a lead in the 4th quarter against the Cardinals, before they whizzed the game down their leg by allowing Kurt Warner a 14 play drive to leave no room for a comeback. He played poorly against the Bucs for sure - Reid's play calling didn't help, nor did having Levon Kirkland as our MLB wandering aimlessly around the field instead of Trotter. He got injured against Carolina - that was just a terrible game all around. And when he had a legit receiver, we were damn near unstoppable and went to the Super Bowl. With DJax later on, he shoudl've beaten the Cards, and went 11-5 the following year before getting jettisoned. 3-4 years of throwing to TO and he would have HOF numbers. With a competent gameday coach he would have rings. But don't take my word for it, look at the 10 years since his time here - Andy Reid 2-6 in the playoffs. He was used as a Brady, and his strengths often weren't played to by his coach. Just a damned shame. Oh well, at least we got our ring. Reid will never get his. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- When we traded McNabb, I was thinking about who carried who. Did McNabb carry Reid or vice versa? I expected that it leaned in DMACs favor. In hindsight, the Fat Man carried DMAC. Granted Reid's playoff record has been sub par, but his regular season record has been stellar. DMAC couldn't keep a starters job and got beaten out by dregs like Ponder and Redskins backups. I think this has hurt McNabbs legacy in the league and his lack of HOF support league wide more than previously thought. when he left here, I thought his odds were decent that he'd make the HOF. Andys not there yet, but I think one more AFCCG appearance and three more winning seasons probably seals the deal for him. He's got a shot. |
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Post by hankey on May 25, 2019 20:06:29 GMT -5
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- When we traded McNabb, I was thinking about who carried who. Did McNabb carry Reid or vice versa? I expected that it leaned in DMACs favor. In hindsight, the Fat Man carried DMAC. Granted Reid's playoff record has been sub par, but his regular season record has been stellar. DMAC couldn't keep a starters job and got beaten out by dregs like Ponder and Redskins backups. I think this has hurt McNabbs legacy in the league and his lack of HOF support league wide more than previously thought. when he left here, I thought his odds were decent that he'd make the HOF. Andys not there yet, but I think one more AFCCG appearance and three more winning seasons probably seals the deal for him. He's got a shot. Meh. We were having a good talk, then you had to go into hater mode. Andy is good at building and maintaining a good product on the field. His regular season record reflects that. Andy is terrible at in-game decision making, clock management, play calling, and adjusting game plans. His playoff record reflects that. McNabb is 9-7 in the playoffs. Reid is 12-14. That means Reid is 3-7 without #5.....and 2-6 over 9 years since having him. Last year he had the league MVP, with a top-5 receiver, and the #1 seed. Same result. The Redskins have been a dumpster fire organization for over 2 decades - he was under constant pressure behind the line, and was hit on almost every play it seemed. Then McNabb played ok in Minnesota, in an offense where his job was to hand the ball off and occasionally throw a pass. He was 35, and they wanted to work in Ponder. So what? I think it's all or nothing for Andy - his legacy is already of choking and being outcoached in big games. If he wins a ring he's in - if not, he shouldn't be. Certainly not without at least 2 more SB appearances. |
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Post by nephillymike on May 26, 2019 7:30:36 GMT -5
Not hater mode at all.
Fact is Andy without Donovan did much better than Donovan without Andy. Is that not blatantly obvious?
That was a little surprising to me.
I was a huge McNabb fan. Other than Dawk, he was favorite Eagle for years.
Frankly it's sad listening to him these days. But, I doubt he's lying. I think he really believes he was that much better than he was. Per him, he is "absolutely" a Hall of Famer. Per the rest of the voting world, he wasn't even close enough to get top 15 mention. Projecting a bit, if he had these same feelings of his value, it is not a stretch to see how he wouldn't take blame for things and wouldn't be as motivated to get better after he was established.
I just hope for his and his family's sake he finds peace. He has too many more years in retirement to deal with this. He had a very good career and was a very good player at the toughest position in sports in probably the toughest sports town to play in. He is the best QB this team ever had. Not too shabby. Find peace with it Five.
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Post by gadgetrick on May 26, 2019 7:41:35 GMT -5
Absolutely not. I wouldn't say he was bad at all. He was very good. But, "very good," shouldn't deserve the HoF.
The HoF in all sports has been dumbed down in the past 20 years. I always believe that to be in the HoF, you have to be a great player and be someone everyone--even the casual fan--would know years down the road and have numbers to support being in the HoF. McNabb is not a QB whom will be remembered by the casual fan (other than possibly for puking in the SB). And, as is pointed out here, his numbers aren't really good enough for the HoF either.
I don't have any hate for McNabb at all. I was a fan--still have a jersey--and still believe (as others have mentioned), had Andy not hated wide receivers so badly, he may have been able to have the numbers (and maybe a SB or two). Especially since we all saw what happened when he had a great receiver.
So no, he does not deserve to be in.
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Post by hankey on May 26, 2019 11:13:22 GMT -5
McNabb is not a QB whom will be remembered by the casual fan (other than possibly for puking in the SB). News flash for our dumbass hater fan base - the only people who are even aware of that are the 40-50% of douchebag hater 'Eagles fans' who feel the need to keep saying it on social media. But thanks for proving my point. |
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Post by hankey on May 26, 2019 11:22:22 GMT -5
Fact is Andy without Donovan did much better than Donovan without Andy. Is that not blatantly obvious? No - as the numbers I just posted show, Andy without Donovan is CLEARLY worse off than Donovan without Andy - as was seen when he went down with injuries during his time here. Using his 2 years in Washington and Minnesota at ages 34-35 as legitimate examples is outrageously dishonest, and once again, shows that you have simply become a hater. NFL QB's have a shelf life - a coach's shelf life is several decades. Reid hasn't done shit without him. Andy hasn't come close to sniffing what Donovan almost brought him, even with the league MVP and #1 seed last year - and Tyreek Hill and Kelce to throw to. For fuck's sakes, his 4th target was Sammy Watkins!!!!! If #5 ever had what Mahomes or Wentz/Foles had around them, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I truly hope Eagles fans one day find inner peace, and stop hating on the best QB in franchise history, for the crime of having a dumbass head coach who didn't use him properly or get him targets. |
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Post by nephillymike on May 26, 2019 11:48:58 GMT -5
It's so easy to say if someone disagrees with you, they must be a hater.
That label relieves one from the burden of debate.
Burden relieved!
Even in a post that you and I agree:
HE IS NOT A HALL OF FAMER!
Imagine that.
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Post by hankey on May 26, 2019 13:52:57 GMT -5
It's so easy to say if someone disagrees with you, they must be a hater. That label relieves one from the burden of debate. Burden relieved! Even in a post that you and I agree: HE IS NOT A HALL OF FAMER! Imagine that. The numbers show that Reid's best chance by far was with #5 - he came 3 points from a SB win 15 years ago, and hasn't come close to sniffing that since. Last year he had the league MVP, a top-5 receiver, and the #1 seed - and still failed miserably. You countered with 2 years of being both in a dumpster fire in Washington, and in a rebuilding situation with Minnesota - in his mid-30s. That's an outrageously intellectually dishonest comparison. That would be like looking at Montana's numbers in KC in order to trash him while claiming George Seifert was the reason the 49ers won. Ridiculous. |
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Post by nephillymike on May 26, 2019 16:13:13 GMT -5
I am saying Andy did better than Donovan did after they split.
I did not say that Andy did better after Donovan than he did with him, which is what you seem to be arguing.
There is a difference. Do you see that?
There have been veteran QBs who had close to HOF or HOF careers who switched teams late in their careers and did very well Or at least didn't fall on their face: Warren Moon, Curt Warner, Brett Favre, P. Manning. McNabb clearly hurt his.
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Post by hankey on May 26, 2019 16:21:58 GMT -5
Yes, I get what you're saying - and I'm saying it's a ridiculous and intellectually dishonest comparison. If you wanted you could've just said Kurt Warner and Peyton Manning switched teams late in their careers and did well. Great, agreed - they were better than #5. But you didn't - you just said Andy did better. And threads like this are exactly why I will always cheer for Andy Reid to choke in the goddam playoffs, even if it means I have to watch another Patriots Super Bowl.
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Post by nephillymike on May 26, 2019 19:46:17 GMT -5
But here's the news flash, Andy did better than Donavan did after the split.
Can you admit that?
And by the way, I don't care for Andy Reid.
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Post by nephillymike on May 27, 2019 5:36:57 GMT -5
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Post by gadgetrick on May 27, 2019 6:55:32 GMT -5
McNabb is not a QB whom will be remembered by the casual fan (other than possibly for puking in the SB). News flash for our dumbass hater fan base - the only people who are even aware of that are the 40-50% of douchebag hater 'Eagles fans' who feel the need to keep saying it on social media. But thanks for proving my point. As usual you show your lack of ability to know wtf you're talking about. Thanks for continually proving that point... |
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Post by gadgetrick on May 27, 2019 6:56:36 GMT -5
It's so easy to say if someone disagrees with you, they must be a hater. That label relieves one from the burden of debate. Burden relieved! Even in a post that you and I agree: HE IS NOT A HALL OF FAMER! Imagine that. Well-said. If you don't agree with you you're a hater, stupid, etc. |
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Post by hankey on May 27, 2019 12:08:34 GMT -5
Well-said. If you don't agree with you you're a hater, stupid, etc. No - you're stupid and a hater because your contribution to this conversation has been 'omg he puked lol.' I'm pointing out that other than douchebag hater Eagles 'fans,' nobody is even aware of this. |
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Post by eyrie on May 27, 2019 14:03:15 GMT -5
And threads like this are exactly why I will always cheer for Andy Reid to choke in the goddam playoffs, even if it means I have to watch another Patriots Super Bowl. That looks like hating to me. It's also at odds with the fact that Reid walked straight into another job four days after leaving us and is still there, which is a better showing than McNabb's one year in Washington and less than one year in Minnesota. Remember how often teams fire their head coaches. As regards McNabb puking, Eagles fans remember it because we've only got three SuperBowl appearances to look back on. Fans of other teams won't recall it because that SuperBowl was largely irrelevant to them as their team wasn't involved. |
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Post by aquila on May 27, 2019 14:05:46 GMT -5
A quick reminder to everyone to keep it civil please.
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Post by hankey on May 27, 2019 14:38:16 GMT -5
That looks like hating to me. It's also at odds with the fact that Reid walked straight into another job four days after leaving us and is still there, which is a better showing than McNabb's one year in Washington and less than one year in Minnesota. Remember how often teams fire their head coaches. As regards McNabb puking, Eagles fans remember it because we've only got three SuperBowl appearances to look back on. Fans of other teams won't recall it because that SuperBowl was largely irrelevant to them as their team wasn't involved. I've spent all the time I'm going to spend on how comparing 2010-11 between the two is intellectually dishonest, apples to elephants, and a desperate attempt to look like you're making a valid point. You aren't. Reid will always have a job - he consistently puts a good product on the field and wins 10 games every year. He also will never win a Super Bowl. The closest he came was courtesy of #5. I wish I could root for him to win one, but I can't. Why? Because people like you are still talking about puke. As far as him puking, the only reason people remember it is because haters feel the need to bring it up in every conversation about #5, as there isn't much to complain about regarding his play. We lost the SB by 3 points to the greatest dynasty in NFL history, while they were cheating. Stop being a hater, and move on with your life and root for us now. |
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Post by eyrie on May 27, 2019 16:39:27 GMT -5
You need to re-read this thread if you think I'm a McNabb hater.
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Post by nephillymike on May 27, 2019 16:41:07 GMT -5
I never cared much for the puking story/criticism.
If he would have just admitted it and say he got hit a play before but didn't want to come out of the game, I think he would have gotten less criticism.
I played with guys who would get sick before games and nobody held it against them.
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Post by hankey on May 27, 2019 17:35:15 GMT -5
I never cared much for the puking story/criticism. If he would have just admitted it and say he got hit a play before but didn't want to come out of the game, I think he would have gotten less criticism. I played with guys who would get sick before games and nobody held it against them. Well Rick decided to chime in with that, so I called him out for it. In any case, he lost by 3 points to a dynasty in the making that was cheating. He won't be remembered as an all-time great, because he wasn't one. But Cowboys/Giants/Redskins fans and many others will remember him kicking their asses for years. It would be nice if a majority of our fan base could do the same. |
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Post by gadgetrick on May 28, 2019 4:48:49 GMT -5
Well-said. If you don't agree with you you're a hater, stupid, etc. No - you're stupid and a hater because your contribution to this conversation has been 'omg he puked lol.' I'm pointing out that other than douchebag hater Eagles 'fans,' nobody is even aware of this. Right. As usual, you're an idiot and can't read anything. Out of everything I wrote you got, "he puked," out of it. Very nice. And, well, since I no longer live in the Northeast and live in FL, it's awful funny that people have asked me about him puking--yes, even non-Eagles fans--so your assertion that nobody else (besides Eagles' fans know about it) are, well, wrong. Being as it was pretty clear I don't hate McNabb--again, you missed this part of the post because you lack basic reading comprehension--you'd be wrong about me...again. |
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Post by nephillymike on May 28, 2019 4:49:35 GMT -5
Marcus Hayes was on sports talk radio the other day and he had a lot to say about the McNabb hall of fame discussion. Hayes, if you know of him, was always a supporter of McNabb. He made reference to the article when he was on the radio. I don't pay for Philly.com, so it only allows me so many articles a month until it blocks me. I read it this AM but then it blocked me. Maybe you can read it. I thought it was an interesting take from a guy who supported him over the years. Let me know if you guys can read it www.philly.com/eagles/donovan-mcnabb-comments-troy-aikman-eli-manning-carson-wentz-analysis-20190527.html |
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Post by gadgetrick on May 28, 2019 4:50:59 GMT -5
I never cared much for the puking story/criticism. If he would have just admitted it and say he got hit a play before but didn't want to come out of the game, I think he would have gotten less criticism. I played with guys who would get sick before games and nobody held it against them. Well Rick decided to chime in with that, so I called him out for it. In any case, he lost by 3 points to a dynasty in the making that was cheating. He won't be remembered as an all-time great, because he wasn't one. But Cowboys/Giants/Redskins fans and many others will remember him kicking their asses for years. It would be nice if a majority of our fan base could do the same. I'll make it easier for you to go back and read the whole part where it's obvious I'm not a McNabb hater: "I don't have any hate for McNabb at all. I was a fan--still have a jersey--and still believe (as others have mentioned), had Andy not hated wide receivers so badly, he may have been able to have the numbers (and maybe a SB or two). Especially since we all saw what happened when he had a great receiver." And maybe you should go back and re-read what I said about him puking. Nothing like taking what I typed out of context.... |
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