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Post by One on Feb 2, 2019 21:20:57 GMT -5
I'd expect Foles to decline, apparently within five days. Then he's a FA. Linc ... Here's hoping there's a team that really wants him and is willing to part with a 2 or a 1 this year. |
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Post by nephillymike on Feb 2, 2019 22:38:40 GMT -5
Would you do a deal if the team offered a 3rd this year?
We would be surrendering an after 3rd round comp pick in 2020, to get a real 3rd round pick in 2019.
It's something.
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Post by eyrie on Feb 3, 2019 5:47:09 GMT -5
Would you do a deal if the team offered a 3rd this year? We would be surrendering an after 3rd round comp pick in 2020, to get a real 3rd round pick in 2019. It's something. We're in a weak bargaining position with other teams, so I'd take that if a conditional pick in 2020 is included. Say a fourth for 8+ starts or a third if any of those starts are in the playoffs, otherwise nothing. |
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Post by One on Feb 3, 2019 6:38:59 GMT -5
Would you do a deal if the team offered a 3rd this year? We would be surrendering an after 3rd round comp pick in 2020, to get a real 3rd round pick in 2019. It's something. Yes, especially if it were an early third but as you said, any actual third is earlier than a compensatory pick and it would be this year not 2020. |
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Post by hankey on Feb 3, 2019 12:10:09 GMT -5
I don't care to get familiar with all the contract rules and GM tricks of the NFL, but it will never cease to amaze me how people arrive at a player's value.
A THIRD ROUNDER!?! In exchange for a proven NFL starting QB who won a Super Bowl against Brady? Unreal.
Remember, draft picks are completely unproven. At least with first/second rounders you're getting some sort of pedigree, and a reasonable chance of landing a competent starter. Roseman should be buried if all we get is a damn 3rd round pick.
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Post by One on Feb 3, 2019 14:41:14 GMT -5
I don't care to get familiar with all the contract rules and GM tricks of the NFL, but it will never cease to amaze me how people arrive at a player's value. A THIRD ROUNDER!?! In exchange for a proven NFL starting QB who won a Super Bowl against Brady? Unreal. Remember, draft picks are completely unproven. At least with first/second rounders you're getting some sort of pedigree, and a reasonable chance of landing a competent starter. Roseman should be buried if all we get is a damn 3rd round pick. Unless you take into consideration his past success and the fact that everyone knows the Eagles cap situation and generally their needs. |
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Post by hankey on Feb 3, 2019 17:48:44 GMT -5
I can't complain about how Foles' contract was set up. Who the hell could've thought his second stint here would be so eventful?
I just don't want to get into a situation where we're 6-3 next season, and Wentz's injuries flare up again, and now Sudafed steps in and we're officially rooting for draft position the final 7 games. In the meantime, Foles is in Jax going on another run - or even worse, wearing damn Giants blue.
Hopefully something can be worked out where we bring both guys back, but obviously it doesn't look like the organization is considering that. Only time will tell.
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Post by gadgetrick on Feb 5, 2019 6:26:40 GMT -5
I don't care to get familiar with all the contract rules and GM tricks of the NFL, but it will never cease to amaze me how people arrive at a player's value. A THIRD ROUNDER!?! In exchange for a proven NFL starting QB who won a Super Bowl against Brady? Unreal. Remember, draft picks are completely unproven. At least with first/second rounders you're getting some sort of pedigree, and a reasonable chance of landing a competent starter. Roseman should be buried if all we get is a damn 3rd round pick. Unless you take into consideration his past success and the fact that everyone knows the Eagles cap situation and generally their needs. It's not his true value. The Eagles are in a very weak position from a bargaining standpoint. This is why they'll get a lot less than he's actually worth. We have no choice. We cannot afford him. |
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Post by groundedbird on Feb 5, 2019 11:00:34 GMT -5
gadgetrick, you do have a point, BUT...
1. Other GMs know they are dealing with Roseman and know what he is like.
2. Other GMs might suspect that the Eagles have deals in the works. (It's the prudent thing to do)
3. All world Jared Goff shows that it takes a special breed to win the superbowl.
We *may* get a second after all.
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Post by hankey on Feb 5, 2019 12:55:43 GMT -5
3. All world Jared Goff shows that it takes a special breed to win the superbowl. This is a really good point. The #1 pick, higher than Wentz, looked like a child trying to play a man's game out there. Even though 90% of the game they were within a score or tied, it never looked that close. Foles, the 'backup who was lucky to play in Chip's offense,' looked like Joe Montana en route to spanking Brady and Belichick with 41 points. I've said I want to bring both back and let them compete for the job, no matter what kind of money or finagling it takes. It's unlikely, but probably the best thing for this franchise. As I said in another thread, if we end up getting some compensatory 3rd round pick for this guy, that's a huge failure. |
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Post by gadgetrick on Feb 5, 2019 16:25:24 GMT -5
3. All world Jared Goff shows that it takes a special breed to win the superbowl. This is a really good point. The #1 pick, higher than Wentz, looked like a child trying to play a man's game out there. Even though 90% of the game they were within a score or tied, it never looked that close. Foles, the 'backup who was lucky to play in Chip's offense,' looked like Joe Montana en route to spanking Brady and Belichick with 41 points. I've said I want to bring both back and let them compete for the job, no matter what kind of money or finagling it takes. It's unlikely, but probably the best thing for this franchise. As I said in another thread, if we end up getting some compensatory 3rd round pick for this guy, that's a huge failure. Regardless, all of the GMs know we can't afford to keep him on our roster so he has to go. So, if they wind up franchsing him--most-likely outcome in order to be able to trade him--they know we have to get him off our books and they can wait Howie out. Not a lot of moves Howie can make as far as this goes. |
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Post by nephillymike on Feb 5, 2019 22:29:42 GMT -5
If you want a return on your investment, the best way to go is to trade Wentz.
Wentz + Foles comp pick for Foles, a PB player, a solid starter, a 3rd rounder, and at least $25 M of cap space over five years.
They are now speculating that Goff and Wentz deals could approach $30 M
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Post by rumply on Feb 6, 2019 0:07:34 GMT -5
Whisper that Rams might move on from Goff, makes as much sense as the Eagles doing the same with Wentz.
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Post by eyrie on Feb 6, 2019 15:38:33 GMT -5
If you want a return on your investment, the best way to go is to trade Wentz. Wentz + Foles comp pick for Foles, a PB player, a solid starter, a 3rd rounder, and at least $25 M of cap space over five years. They are now speculating that Goff and Wentz deals could approach $30 M OK, I'll bite. Which team would make us that offer, and which players would they include? |
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Post by hankey on Feb 6, 2019 20:06:00 GMT -5
If you want a return on your investment, the best way to go is to trade Wentz. Wentz + Foles comp pick for Foles, a PB player, a solid starter, a 3rd rounder, and at least $25 M of cap space over five years. They are now speculating that Goff and Wentz deals could approach $30 M This is the dirty little secret. The best logical move at this point would be to get a king's ransom for Wentz, and to bring back Foles. But the simple fact that we made a blockbuster trade to get the #2 pick, as opposed to this 'backup QB' will prevent us from ever doing it. I'm not even necessarily advocating for this - just pointing out that if you were an alien looking at this from space with no emotion or attachment at all, you'd do it. |
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Post by nephillymike on Feb 6, 2019 20:31:17 GMT -5
I think what the Eagles could do if they were to trade Wentz open it up to a ton of possibilities.
I'm guessing that there would be at least a dozen teams interested.
You can tell those teams that the can take one of their players off of the table.
With the rest of the players, they can divide their players into a top group of five and all the rest in the next tier.
The Eagles pick what should be Pro Bowl talent from the top five, and a solid starter from the other group.
And we get a 3rd round pick besides.
And we save at least five million a year in cap space by keeping Foles over Wentz.
Teams would not have to give up their best player to get Wentz which should be seen as reasonable.
I'm guessing if a dozen teams are interested in the beginning, at least nine play along. You can use the third round pick as your starting negotiating point and go up from there.
Should be very lucrative.
Because of Foles contract and perceived lower value, we are unable to get much in return for him. It would be interesting to see what his unhindered trade value would be, but that's not happening.
We have a surplus in the QB spot. There is only one route to get a return in a trade.
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Post by One on Feb 6, 2019 21:29:45 GMT -5
I don't understand why you are persistent with this. Foles has had limited success, both with this team and away from this team. It's the most important position on a team and Wentz is a talent who hasn't begun to scratch his potential. Why do you keep advocating getting rid of him and keeping a much more limited player?
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Post by hankey on Feb 6, 2019 22:18:19 GMT -5
I don't understand why you are persistent with this. Foles has had limited success, both with this team and away from this team. It's the most important position on a team and Wentz is a talent who hasn't begun to scratch his potential. Why do you keep advocating getting rid of him and keeping a much more limited player? I don't speak for nephillymike exactly, but we're looking at the logical moves in our current situation. We may or may not have agreed with what we did to get Wentz, but here we are several years later, and the clear best option for our team right now is Foles. I don't think we should get rid of Wentz, I've stated we should do whatever it takes to bring both back - Foles for now, Wentz for the future. Let them compete for the job. The simple fact is, if we have to let one go, we would get much more for Wentz, enough to solidify our weapons and positions to let Foles go on another championship run. The reverse is we let an SB MVP go, get shit in return, and hope Wentz actually finishes this season with a playoff run. Can you honestly say we would have made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs with Wentz healthy? No, you can't. We likely would've gone 7-9. So, that being said, as I've maintained in my arguments on this site, you avoid the emotional trap of pedigree, and make the right move for the team. |
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Post by nephillymike on Feb 6, 2019 23:18:39 GMT -5
I don't understand why you are persistent with this. Foles has had limited success, both with this team and away from this team. It's the most important position on a team and Wentz is a talent who hasn't begun to scratch his potential. Why do you keep advocating getting rid of him and keeping a much more limited player? I am persistent and I agree that if they are being honest in their statements, it is definitely Wentz so this is all for naught. I just think that Foles plus the players, plus the pick, plus at least five mill in cap per year creates a better team than just Wentz and a 2020 end of a third round comp pick. Wentz has played well for our team. No doubt in my mind. Overall, I am happy with him as our QB. But I think that many fans over value the athletic things Wentz does and under values the great passes of Foles. Whether right, wrong or indifferent, the way the team reacted to Foles being back at QB, and how they played, was impressive. Foles is more limited athletically, for sure. But in the games they've played for Dougie P, Foles has better stats than Wentz in every QB category except TD %. He has a much better winning % than Wentz and has played much tougher competition. That's not to say Wentz will never be able to do it, but Foles has. As far as athleticism goes, even with Wentz athleticism, he is sacked almost at a rate twice that of Foles. we also ignore Foles year with Chip when he put up the third highest rating ever. Yes he struggled in STL, as did Keenum, but both found success after that QB hell. I think that discounts the bad year. Also, we have a rare ability to get a great return for an asset surplus. If not, then Ok, we'll move on with Wentz and I'll back him as our QB and he will likely play better for us than Foles will elsewhere, but maybe not as good as Foles did here. The return on our investment that we'd get by trading Wentz makes me comfortable to take the chance with that maybe. on the other hand, be prepared to have free agent Foles go to wherever he is comfortable. He will be unhindered as the salary cap we would need to clear prohibits us from any real franchise tag. Let's all enjoy that end of third round compensatory selection. He doesn't owe us anything. He's paid in full. Best of luck to him, best of luck to us! All good. |
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Post by One on Feb 7, 2019 8:12:16 GMT -5
I love Foles and will be eternally grateful for what he has done for the Eagles and the fans.
But, let's not forget the comparatively very limited number of QB starts Wentz has had in his entire football career and that this is the ultimate team game. Wentz is still learning how to be a QB, not just an NFL QB. There's no guarantee he'll reach the pinnacle of his talent, but all of the ingredients are there. With a strong surrounding team and solid, patient coaching the chances of him realizing his talents are high.
Foles not only has the experience Wentz lacks, and likely instinctively knows how to act in big games and at critical moments, but let's not forget he did it in times when the other players were raising their games too, aka "team." Foles didn't win by himself, and if the other players and the coaches didn't step up their games at the same time you'd still be calling me Zero.
Putting Foles' failures in perspective is fair and important as should be putting his successes in the same perspective. The same thing holds true for Wentz, patience is irrelevant for the Eagles if they trade him.
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Post by eyrie on Feb 7, 2019 11:28:24 GMT -5
I think what the Eagles could do if they were to trade Wentz open it up to a ton of possibilities. I'm guessing that there would be at least a dozen teams interested. You can tell those teams that the can take one of their players off of the table. With the rest of the players, they can divide their players into a top group of five and all the rest in the next tier. The Eagles pick what should be Pro Bowl talent from the top five, and a solid starter from the other group. And we get a 3rd round pick besides. And we save at least five million a year in cap space by keeping Foles over Wentz. Teams would not have to give up their best player to get Wentz which should be seen as reasonable. I'm guessing if a dozen teams are interested in the beginning, at least nine play along. You can use the third round pick as your starting negotiating point and go up from there. Should be very lucrative. Because of Foles contract and perceived lower value, we are unable to get much in return for him. It would be interesting to see what his unhindered trade value would be, but that's not happening. We have a surplus in the QB spot. There is only one route to get a return in a trade. Which nine teams would that be? And which players on those teams would you want that they would give up? |
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Post by gadgetrick on Feb 7, 2019 14:38:19 GMT -5
I love Foles and will be eternally grateful for what he has done for the Eagles and the fans. But, let's not forget the comparatively very limited number of QB starts Wentz has had in his entire football career and that this is the ultimate team game. Wentz is still learning how to be a QB, not just an NFL QB. There's no guarantee he'll reach the pinnacle of his talent, but all of the ingredients are there. With a strong surrounding team and solid, patient coaching the chances of him realizing his talents are high. Foles not only has the experience Wentz lacks, and likely instinctively knows how to act in big games and at critical moments, but let's not forget he did it in times when the other players were raising their games too, aka "team." Foles didn't win by himself, and if the other players and the coaches didn't step up their games at the same time you'd still be calling me Zero. Putting Foles' failures in perspective is fair and important as should be putting his successes in the same perspective. The same thing holds true for Wentz, patience is irrelevant for the Eagles if they trade him. Well-said. While it's fun to think, "what if," with respect to trading Wentz, it's just a dumb idea. Foles is stupid good...when he's good. When he's bad, he's just like every other struggling QB in the NFL. He had the one crazy season in Philly but, other than that--over the course of a full season--he's been an average (at best) QB. You're all clouding your judgment because he stepped in and finished what Wentz started then stepped in again and played well. Let's not forget, he didn't have a full season of hits, etc. on him when he stepped in at the end of the past 2 seasons. And, let's not forget, he didn't play all that well (again, average at best) to start the season. Now, you could make the argument the team wasn't fully-healthy when Foles started this season but you can say the same about Wentz. Hell, HE wasn't even fully-healthy at all this season and that had a lot to do with his back injury. Then, fast forward to when Foles stepped in again, the Eagles were as healthy as they'd been all season when he stepped in. So he benefitted from a much more-healthy team than Wentz had been playing with. Also, Foles is one of the luckiest QBs I've ever seen with his deep passes. He has a tendency to throw a ball up for grabs and seems not to get burned. One day that will catch up with him. Oh, and, Wentz's numbers were actually BETTER than they were last season...you know, when he was going to win the MVP... To walk away from the talent that is Wentz is a dumb idea on so many levels. We have suffered FOREVER without a franchise QB. McNabb was the closest we had recently and, before that, Cunningham. Wentz is better than both of them and is getting better all of the time. Once he's got more games under his belt, he'll start noticing things he hasn't been, that's called experience. That only comes with time. Foles should absolutely be starting somewhere but I'll take Wentz over Foles any day and twice on Sundays. He is better--even without the experience--in pretty much every aspect of the position and will get better. Foles is what he is, he's not going to get any better. |
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Post by hankey on Feb 7, 2019 18:31:53 GMT -5
Well-said. While it's fun to think, "what if," with respect to trading Wentz, it's just a dumb idea. Foles is stupid good...when he's good. When he's bad, he's just like every other struggling QB in the NFL. He had the one crazy season in Philly but, other than that--over the course of a full season--he's been an average (at best) QB. You're all clouding your judgment because he stepped in and finished what Wentz started then stepped in again and played well. Let's not forget, he didn't have a full season of hits, etc. on him when he stepped in at the end of the past 2 seasons. And, let's not forget, he didn't play all that well (again, average at best) to start the season. Now, you could make the argument the team wasn't fully-healthy when Foles started this season but you can say the same about Wentz. Hell, HE wasn't even fully-healthy at all this season and that had a lot to do with his back injury. Then, fast forward to when Foles stepped in again, the Eagles were as healthy as they'd been all season when he stepped in. So he benefitted from a much more-healthy team than Wentz had been playing with. Also, Foles is one of the luckiest QBs I've ever seen with his deep passes. He has a tendency to throw a ball up for grabs and seems not to get burned. One day that will catch up with him. Oh, and, Wentz's numbers were actually BETTER than they were last season...you know, when he was going to win the MVP... To walk away from the talent that is Wentz is a dumb idea on so many levels. We have suffered FOREVER without a franchise QB. McNabb was the closest we had recently and, before that, Cunningham. Wentz is better than both of them and is getting better all of the time. Once he's got more games under his belt, he'll start noticing things he hasn't been, that's called experience. That only comes with time. Foles should absolutely be starting somewhere but I'll take Wentz over Foles any day and twice on Sundays. He is better--even without the experience--in pretty much every aspect of the position and will get better. Foles is what he is, he's not going to get any better. It is truly amazing the lengths people will go to in order to validate their opinions. Wentz has started 40 games in the NFL (with a consistent downward trend due to injuries) - all with the same head coach and same basic system. Foles has started 44 games, with 4 different head coaches in at least 5 different systems. His only bad year as a starter came in the QB graveyard known as Jeff Fisher's Rams. Foles doesn't need to be 'any better' - he's a Super Bowl MVP, spanking the GOAT en route to our only ring. Don't talk to me about passer rating - Wentz was clearly worse this year under center. His recovery has something to do with that, but he also made far more mental errors than he did last year. When Foles came in the team was clearly better immediately. To pretend otherwise is simply delusional. Can you sit there with a straight face and tell me we would've gone to the playoffs and beaten Chicago on the road if Wentz finished the year? No, you can't. Your judgement is clouded by Wentz's pedigree, and the hope that the #2 pick will end up living up to his draft position. He showed us flashes of that last year, but not much since. We all expect Wentz to be here and Foles gone very soon - our FO better damn well hope that works out. To be frank, people who are so quick to dump Foles are the same reason why people like Sam Bradford are still getting paid money. (And who did we get rid of to bring him here again?) |
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Post by One on Feb 7, 2019 23:10:48 GMT -5
When Foles came in the team was clearly better immediately. To pretend otherwise is simply delusional. Can you sit there with a straight face and tell me we would've gone to the playoffs and beaten Chicago on the road if Wentz finished the year? No, you can't. No, just as no one could have said the team would have played better under Foles if Wentz hadn't have gotten hurt. Foles did what he was supposed to do and he deserves credit for it, so yes, the team may very well have made that turnaround even if Wentz had remained. Whether they would have or not is limited to opinion. |
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Post by nephillymike on Feb 8, 2019 5:49:07 GMT -5
Per WIP, citing Florio from PFT yesterday AM,:
He says it is against the rules to put the franchise tag on a player for the purposes of trading him. The tag is meant to be applied for a player you intend to keep on your team and doing otherwise restricts the freedom of the player which is against the CBA.
I assume he knows what he is talking about, but I find it strange that nobody else has picked up on this and have been reporting all along as if it was a possibility.
If he is correct, then a Foles is gone and our compensation is a third round compensatory pick at best.
I will see if I can find a link.
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Post by nephillymike on Feb 8, 2019 5:53:25 GMT -5
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Post by hankey on Feb 8, 2019 15:58:51 GMT -5
Per WIP, citing Florio from PFT yesterday AM,: He says it is against the rules to put the franchise tag on a player for the purposes of trading him. The tag is meant to be applied for a player you intend to keep on your team and doing otherwise restricts the freedom of the player which is against the CBA. I assume he knows what he is talking about, but I find it strange that nobody else has picked up on this and have been reporting all along as if it was a possibility. If he is correct, then a Foles is gone and our compensation is a third round compensatory pick at best. I will see if I can find a link. Meh - probably just talk show fodder. As in, the NFLPA would have to prove intent - has anyone in the Eagles organization said they plan to trade Foles? If not, they can just shrug their shoulders and say 'hey we got a great offer for him.' |
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Post by gadgetrick on Feb 8, 2019 16:45:58 GMT -5
Well-said. While it's fun to think, "what if," with respect to trading Wentz, it's just a dumb idea. Foles is stupid good...when he's good. When he's bad, he's just like every other struggling QB in the NFL. He had the one crazy season in Philly but, other than that--over the course of a full season--he's been an average (at best) QB. You're all clouding your judgment because he stepped in and finished what Wentz started then stepped in again and played well. Let's not forget, he didn't have a full season of hits, etc. on him when he stepped in at the end of the past 2 seasons. And, let's not forget, he didn't play all that well (again, average at best) to start the season. Now, you could make the argument the team wasn't fully-healthy when Foles started this season but you can say the same about Wentz. Hell, HE wasn't even fully-healthy at all this season and that had a lot to do with his back injury. Then, fast forward to when Foles stepped in again, the Eagles were as healthy as they'd been all season when he stepped in. So he benefitted from a much more-healthy team than Wentz had been playing with. Also, Foles is one of the luckiest QBs I've ever seen with his deep passes. He has a tendency to throw a ball up for grabs and seems not to get burned. One day that will catch up with him. Oh, and, Wentz's numbers were actually BETTER than they were last season...you know, when he was going to win the MVP... To walk away from the talent that is Wentz is a dumb idea on so many levels. We have suffered FOREVER without a franchise QB. McNabb was the closest we had recently and, before that, Cunningham. Wentz is better than both of them and is getting better all of the time. Once he's got more games under his belt, he'll start noticing things he hasn't been, that's called experience. That only comes with time. Foles should absolutely be starting somewhere but I'll take Wentz over Foles any day and twice on Sundays. He is better--even without the experience--in pretty much every aspect of the position and will get better. Foles is what he is, he's not going to get any better. It is truly amazing the lengths people will go to in order to validate their opinions. Wentz has started 40 games in the NFL (with a consistent downward trend due to injuries) - all with the same head coach and same basic system. Foles has started 44 games, with 4 different head coaches in at least 5 different systems. His only bad year as a starter came in the QB graveyard known as Jeff Fisher's Rams. Foles doesn't need to be 'any better' - he's a Super Bowl MVP, spanking the GOAT en route to our only ring. Don't talk to me about passer rating - Wentz was clearly worse this year under center. His recovery has something to do with that, but he also made far more mental errors than he did last year. When Foles came in the team was clearly better immediately. To pretend otherwise is simply delusional. Can you sit there with a straight face and tell me we would've gone to the playoffs and beaten Chicago on the road if Wentz finished the year? No, you can't. Your judgement is clouded by Wentz's pedigree, and the hope that the #2 pick will end up living up to his draft position. He showed us flashes of that last year, but not much since. We all expect Wentz to be here and Foles gone very soon - our FO better damn well hope that works out. To be frank, people who are so quick to dump Foles are the same reason why people like Sam Bradford are still getting paid money. (And who did we get rid of to bring him here again?) First of all, nobody is kicking Foles to the curb. The issue is, they can't afford to keep both Foles and Wentz. Your view on Foles is clouded by him winning the SB. Do you honestly believe they wouldn't have won the SB with Wentz under center? You understand Wentz is who got them the number 1 seed. If they had to go somewhere else to play--or not gotten a bye--things may have been drastically different. You say Foles was not as good this season yet his numbers would say otherwise. Did he make mistakes? Yes. Were those mistakes amplified by the fact so many of the #1s were hurt? Absolutely. Was Wentz ever 100% this season? Not even close. Your--and everyone else's--argument about health makes absolutely no sense. First injury was a freak accident. He was never healthy when he came back, which caused his back problem. Not to mention, ANYONE can get hurt. Foles got hurt when he was in Philly before. But I guess you forget that? You say Wentz showed us, "flashes," last season? Flashes!!?? Really? You understand he was going to be the MVP right? That's a bit more than, "flashes". If anyone showed flashes during his career that would be Foles (other than one season). If the team is so much better when Foles is under center, what happened at the start of the season? They looked like shit. They played like shit. And, as many of us have pointed out, Wentz just played in his THIRD season. He's still learning. He's going to make mistakes from time to time. That is a part of learning the position. For you to compare Wentz to Bradford--the biggest fraud ever in the NFL--is just plain ridiculous. I'll say it again, nobody here dislikes Foles. Nobody here thinks Foles sucks. Wentz is just the better solution going forward for the long-term. |
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Post by gadgetrick on Feb 8, 2019 16:47:20 GMT -5
When Foles came in the team was clearly better immediately. To pretend otherwise is simply delusional. Can you sit there with a straight face and tell me we would've gone to the playoffs and beaten Chicago on the road if Wentz finished the year? No, you can't. No, just as no one could have said the team would have played better under Foles if Wentz hadn't have gotten hurt. Foles did what he was supposed to do and he deserves credit for it, so yes, the team may very well have made that turnaround even if Wentz had remained. Whether they would have or not is limited to opinion. Exactly. They got much healthier as a team at that point in the season (this past season) as well, which had a bit to do with it as well. |
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Post by hankey on Feb 8, 2019 17:57:42 GMT -5
First of all, nobody is kicking Foles to the curb. The issue is, they can't afford to keep both Foles and Wentz. Your view on Foles is clouded by him winning the SB. Do you honestly believe they wouldn't have won the SB with Wentz under center? You understand Wentz is who got them the number 1 seed. If they had to go somewhere else to play--or not gotten a bye--things may have been drastically different. You say Foles was not as good this season yet his numbers would say otherwise. Did he make mistakes? Yes. Were those mistakes amplified by the fact so many of the #1s were hurt? Absolutely. Was Wentz ever 100% this season? Not even close. Your--and everyone else's--argument about health makes absolutely no sense. First injury was a freak accident. He was never healthy when he came back, which caused his back problem. Not to mention, ANYONE can get hurt. Foles got hurt when he was in Philly before. But I guess you forget that? You say Wentz showed us, "flashes," last season? Flashes!!?? Really? You understand he was going to be the MVP right? That's a bit more than, "flashes". If anyone showed flashes during his career that would be Foles (other than one season). If the team is so much better when Foles is under center, what happened at the start of the season? They looked like shit. They played like shit. And, as many of us have pointed out, Wentz just played in his THIRD season. He's still learning. He's going to make mistakes from time to time. That is a part of learning the position. For you to compare Wentz to Bradford--the biggest fraud ever in the NFL--is just plain ridiculous. I'll say it again, nobody here dislikes Foles. Nobody here thinks Foles sucks. Wentz is just the better solution going forward for the long-term. Absolutely Foles is being kicked to the curb - that's why we're having this discussion. No, Wentz would not have beat the Pats in the SB in my opinion - and he clearly wasn't the MVP of the team, much less the league, considering, you know.....Foles WON THE SUPER BOWL. Anyone who wants to be intellectually honest knows that the team was clearly better under Foles this year. He went 1-1 to start the season. We lost to the Bucs because we let Ryan Fitz throw for 400 yards. Then Wentz went 5-6. You know the rest. Of course they could keep both if they wanted to. They don't because of potential locker room issues that we've heard about recently. Since Wentz has pedigree (there's that word again), people are kicking Foles to the curb and hoping the #2 pick and franchise QB matches or exceeds his success. Unfortunately, the trends aren't looking like that. I wasn't comparing Wentz to Bradford - I was comparing people like you to people who still give Bradford money in the hopes that one day his #1 pick status will be justified. If Bradford was a 3rd-rounder, he would've been out of the league in 3 years. If Wentz was a 3rd-rounder, he'd be the backup right now. It's that simple. |
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