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For BW
Jul 24, 2023 6:57:01 GMT -5
Post by One on Jul 24, 2023 6:57:01 GMT -5
Here's a recent article from one of the alternative news sites I've mentioned (Substack, The Free Press). I don't see anything that's partisan or anything that's promoting some agenda. Please let me know if you feel differently. From the article: Link |
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For BW
Jul 24, 2023 11:36:04 GMT -5
Post by birdwatcher on Jul 24, 2023 11:36:04 GMT -5
I'm sorry One, I don't know what I was thinking, but coming back here was a mistake. I foolishly thought we could engage in a logical debate, but I was wrong. I should have seen it, it was plain as day in the posts you guys shared with each other. I read your article and it still sounds weak as hell to me, a stretch to say the least. I suspect I spent more time reading it than anything I offered up for you guys to read, as I can see you are in defense mode and not open to the possibility that those you have faith in have acted in bad faith. Trump is an example of everything that is wrong with this country, he is selfish, greedy, bigoted, and has a documented issue with telling the truth.
A message for Mike, who mentioned how his daughter won't engage in debate with him. I suspect that she has realized that there is no argument she can offer that will penetrate your deeply held beliefs. So, to avoid the frustration this makes her feel, she has chosen to disconnect. I know she loves you Mike, and her decision to not engage in debate is her way of preserving that.
I will leave again, and allow you this safe space where you all agree that there is some grand conspiracy to sabotage conservatives. I put some real time and effort in engaging with you guys, and all I got was my input dismissed as too 'liberal,' while you engaged in the 'what about this' reactions. I wish you all well, but I suspect that you have condemned yourselves to much frustration and angst. The world you want does not exist, and I can't say the one I envision ever will either, but I don't see the value in bitching about it. Truth is, our time is nearly over, and the younger generation is starting to assert itself. You think they are somehow foolish, but I think they really can't screw it up any worse than we did. We will all see how this plays out over the next few years, and I don't see any value in butting heads with people whose minds are made up, and you guys are clearly sure you know the truth.
I really do wish you all well, but this has quickly become an exercise in futility. And when One said, this is not how I imagined retirement, I realized I was doing more harm than good. So, I will bow out and let you guys have this place without someone making you uncomfortable. Good luck and God bless you, I don't think any of you are bad guys. We just stand 'diametrically' opposed to each other philosophically, as MD was so kind to point out. Go Eagles!
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md717
Pro Bowler
Posts: 276
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For BW
Jul 24, 2023 14:43:36 GMT -5
Post by md717 on Jul 24, 2023 14:43:36 GMT -5
Wow, dude. I will say this as kindly as I know how, because I mean you no harm and harbor no ill will whatsoever toward you - but if reading the truth upsets you so badly, you really need to take a break and do some reflective thinking. There's nothing in that article that isn't true, and that hasn't been widely reported by numerous sources.
Two things can be true at once - it can be true that Donald Trump is the worst scoundrel who ever held the US Presidency (I think that's pretty true) and also AT THE SAME TIME that the Bidens, Hunter in particular, were involved in some pretty bad stuff. Those truths aren't mutually exclusive.
I tried to suggest to you gently (although it insulted you, for which I am sorry) that perhaps your view of your position on the political continuum might be a little skewed. After that little outburst, I'll say it's a LOT skewed!
You're welcome here any time as far as I'm concerned. But jeez, leave the drama! I mean it - if reading that article upset you so badly, you've got some work to do.
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For BW
Jul 24, 2023 15:12:17 GMT -5
Post by One on Jul 24, 2023 15:12:17 GMT -5
I'm truly and honestly sorry, BW. Not for anything I said, but because it appears that you think we thrive on sharing opinions with people of like mind. Those who shared thoughts with you in an effort to understand a different perspective were polite and courteous and you responded in kind. Speaking only for myself, I tried to offer a response for every point you made while you skipped over many of mine.
Not meaning insult, mainly disappointment, I see your second departure as lame and a product born of an inability to counter facts with opposing facts. As example, you never responded to the many times the liberal media published inaccurate and defamatory reports and you never countered with examples of when the conservative media did the same. In fact, you did precisely what you charge us with doing, deriding the source. Your responses, including your exit post, are emblematic of almost every debate I've witnessed or participated in with people who share your opinions. In this specific article, the best you can offer is that it's weak. Nothing deeper? No counter points to what the writer said? Just a drive by shot followed by a good bye.
I hope at some point you're able to consider that the effort you put into communicating wasn't what you think it was. Although I don't think so, it may be that we're guilty of the same thing, but we're not the one's retreating from debate.
I wish you and yours happiness and good health.
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For BW
Jul 24, 2023 20:01:35 GMT -5
Post by nephillymike on Jul 24, 2023 20:01:35 GMT -5
I'm sorry One, I don't know what I was thinking, but coming back here was a mistake. I foolishly thought we could engage in a logical debate, but I was wrong. I should have seen it, it was plain as day in the posts you guys shared with each other. I read your article and it still sounds weak as hell to me, a stretch to say the least. I suspect I spent more time reading it than anything I offered up for you guys to read, as I can see you are in defense mode and not open to the possibility that those you have faith in have acted in bad faith. Trump is an example of everything that is wrong with this country, he is selfish, greedy, bigoted, and has a documented issue with telling the truth. A message for Mike, who mentioned how his daughter won't engage in debate with him. I suspect that she has realized that there is no argument she can offer that will penetrate your deeply held beliefs. So, to avoid the frustration this makes her feel, she has chosen to disconnect. I know she loves you Mike, and her decision to not engage in debate is her way of preserving that. I will leave again, and allow you this safe space where you all agree that there is some grand conspiracy to sabotage conservatives. I put some real time and effort in engaging with you guys, and all I got was my input dismissed as too 'liberal,' while you engaged in the 'what about this' reactions. I wish you all well, but I suspect that you have condemned yourselves to much frustration and angst. The world you want does not exist, and I can't say the one I envision ever will either, but I don't see the value in bitching about it. Truth is, our time is nearly over, and the younger generation is starting to assert itself. You think they are somehow foolish, but I think they really can't screw it up any worse than we did. We will all see how this plays out over the next few years, and I don't see any value in butting heads with people whose minds are made up, and you guys are clearly sure you know the truth. I really do wish you all well, but this has quickly become an exercise in futility. And when One said, this is not how I imagined retirement, I realized I was doing more harm than good. So, I will bow out and let you guys have this place without someone making you uncomfortable. Good luck and God bless you, I don't think any of you are bad guys. We just stand 'diametrically' opposed to each other philosophically, as MD was so kind to point out. Go Eagles! BW, Im disappointed that your stay was so short. I am grateful that those involved kept it civil and informative. My wish is that it would continue and if after you had some time to step away and you want to come back, you will be welcomed. Thanks for the research and we’ll written posts. I will read all of the links you posted. I’ve read most but still need to catch up on a few. Most times others have posted replies and opinions on the posts by the time I get the chance and it doesn’t add much to be repetitive. Besides between MD, One and you, they were all better written and researched than my skills or time will permit. I don’t think you accurately define yourself on the political spectrum, but I’m sure you’re not alone in that regard. For some reason, debate seems to be uncomfortable for those on the left. Maybe the personality profile makes it that way. There’s no harm in that but I wish it were different. As for my daughter, I think you have the impression that our political discussions were frequent. They were not. She’s agreed to read RCP and read articles with opposition views so I’ll take the small victory there. I think that good people like yourself, my daughter and my real close CPA-lawyer friend let their guttural hate of Trump cloud their ability to be objective. This is similar to how the “Trump can do know wrong “ crowd let their unwavering blind love for the man cloud any objectivity of his many faults. These two opposite views make meaningful debate extremely difficult. This unfortunately leads to emotion rather than reason to control the dialogue. Here’s a little secret. Both sides want this to be the case because if the American people had the discipline to focus on the facts, they would start cleaning out the Swamp and there wouldn’t be many from either a Party remaining after the cleansing. My hope is that we as a country can rise above it. This seemingly failed attempt on this board with intelligent, educated, calm, respectful and eloquent people is extremely disappointing and doesn’t bode well for the future. Hope you come back my friend and all the best for a quick recovery. |
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For BW
Jul 24, 2023 21:47:48 GMT -5
Post by robbieratchet on Jul 24, 2023 21:47:48 GMT -5
When he showed up, I rolled my eyes and figured I'd let you all go at it. The end result was never in doubt, though I figured he'd at least stick around for a couple weeks.....
There is no such thing as a "moderate" leftist. Behind the pleasantries, he's every bit as radical as your average news anchor. And while I'm sure he harbors no personal ill will towards you 3, he certainly wouldn't flinch if everyone like you around the nation was censored and silenced, and our reps thrown in jail.
As for your daughter Mike, sorry to hear that. Let me guess - you paid some school tens of thousands of dollars to have her taught by Marxist professors? Or were her politics developing at a younger age? If I'm correct, you certainly aren't special. It's likely impossible to calculate how many Republican voters have paid good money to have their young adult children brainwashed. I don't even blame you, as you didn't look at it that way. The next generation of parents will be much different.
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For BW
Jul 24, 2023 22:30:51 GMT -5
Post by nephillymike on Jul 24, 2023 22:30:51 GMT -5
No worries Robbie.
I was fortunate that it didn’t cost me anything.
My daughter got a full boat scholarship and she graduated in 2016 before it got way out of whack in her college. While not the freedom of expression and exchange of ideas when I was there many years ago, it was a few years before the bad stuff.
She’s an anti Trump Democrat and her hate for him was the big impetus as was for a lot of people to play for the other team. It sure as hell wasn't Biden love that won the election but Trump hate.
She’ll be fine in the long haul. She’s closer to the middle of the road than she knows. I’ll continue to harp on her to read opposing views so at least she can be more well rounded.
All is good.
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