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Post by nephillymike on Dec 26, 2022 23:37:54 GMT -5
I’ll try to get as much info as I can and make sense of it.
Bits and pieces have leaked out already, but I’d like to wait until we get a full picture.
A few points ahead of that.
- It is not illegal to have zero tax liability. It may reveal an immoral tax system, but doesn’t mean it’s illegal. Tax accountants ( of which I am one in my second job), are paid to use the tax code to produce the lowest amount of taxes.
- Very interesting that they didn’t audit his returns until the day the House asked for those returns and didn’t abide by the law to audit returns of the President, a law which has been around since Watergate.
- Tax returns for People like Trump take large teams of professionals thousands of hours to prepare. There should be no problem from US citizens if large IRS teams are spending thousands of hours auditing them. Tit for tat. It was said that Trump grumped about the IRS team tripling from one investigator to three. There should be a team of over 20 tax pros auditing them.
- I would be interested to know what type of report was issued by the tax firm. What type of assurance does it give and what type of legal liability is the tax firm exposed to ?
More to follow as info becomes available.
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Post by One on Dec 27, 2022 10:09:50 GMT -5
What's the basis for releasing his tax information? Can the same be done for any other president, or any other citizen?
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Post by nephillymike on Dec 28, 2022 6:03:08 GMT -5
www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-rationale-for-releasing-trumps-taxesPardon the source, but this interview probably describes it best. FWIW, the conservative Supreme Court declined blocking this. He’s the first President since post Watergate not to release them. He’s always said he would have released them but they were “tied up in audits” so he couldn’t release them. If I were king, I’d have “independence” standards for those running for President that would curtail what candidates could be invested in to enhance independence. I mean if CPA who are auditors have that restriction, why shouldn’t a presidential candidate? That would seem yo be common sense but I digress. Besides a law that was not followed to audit his returns, I would codify a law that candidates returns must be made public. The fact that Trumps the first one since Watergate who hasn’t isn’t against the law. I would change that. Furthermore, I would have an independence standard similar to CPA auditors for all members of Congress. Not a public review, but an independence clause that could be audited by the IRS. No need to worry. As the only reason Trump didn’t release his returns were the fact he had years under audit, there will be nothing to see here and it will be a non issue.
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Post by One on Dec 28, 2022 9:55:18 GMT -5
I don't see a reason why a candidate's returns should be made public, any candidate. I'm just not sure what a person's financial status/history has to do with his/her ability to lead the country. As we're seeing now, the results can be twisted to make the candidate appear to be either good or bad depending on what's revealed and how it's presented. An astute businessman paid less taxes than a blue collar worker - is that a bad thing? And how do we know if any illegal or nefarious financial actions haven't been disguised or hidden? A Pelosi or McConnel relative is groomed for a life in Washington - should we believe what the tax returns reveal? I think this is just another political shell game. On another subject, SCOTUS has a assigned a docket number and is considering hearing a case against legislators who failed to investigate claims of fraud in the 2020 presidential election as is purportedly required by law. This is a short clip of a Pennsylvania senator objecting to his state's electoral vote and why he's objecting. If an investigation was required by law (I assume there's some basis to believe so if SCOTUS assigned a docket number), and should the court hear arguments, it could develop into a major indictment of that election. I'm interested in anyone's opinion of what's been transpiring in Arizona. Kari Lake challenged the gubernatorial results because of the cluster fuck in Maricopa County and the court ruled against her. She plans to appeal. |
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Post by nephillymike on Dec 29, 2022 5:38:07 GMT -5
To the “tax uneducated” there could be a misunderstanding as to what a tax return means. Not really different than all the other “ misunderstandings” that are perpetrated every day by the media depending on what the source. The Fox people have a different misunderstanding than the CNN people. Misled nonetheless.
A wealthy person’s tax return is much different that a normal person’s return. With corporations, significant investments, business partners, significant loans etc, there is the opportunity to be beholden to more companies and individuals than Normal Joe. It’s the details in a wealthy person’s return that reveal the most info and the most risk.
To whom or what country is a candidates business corporation indebted to? What industries are my significant investments in? Would this info cause me to promote certain legislation, certain foreign policy? Would those sway a person of power from acting in our country’s best interest but instead focusing on their own best interests? Absolutely. Not the kind of stuff you get from Normal Joe’s W-2, social security check and CD’s.
As an auditor, I was exposed to confidential details of audit clients business. Board minutes, financial concerns before they were known by the public. Multiple opportunities to make significant financial returns off of insider information, but independence standards forbade me from investing in companies audited by our firm. Congressman and the President stand to make a lot more money by passing legislation that furthers their own interests. Read the pork in any bill. Independence would remove that temptation and promote legislation that is not self serving. It’s a common sense law that probably doesn’t stand a prayer, but at least deserves discussion in a public forum.
Have not heard much about AZ other than seeing the headlines. Have not had the time to dig further, yet.
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Post by robbieratchet on Dec 29, 2022 16:42:50 GMT -5
What's the basis for releasing his tax information? Can the same be done for any other president, or any other citizen? Because his returns are going to be tens of thousands of pages long. This will give every hack journalist on the planet license to (correctly) feed off the ignorance of your average voter in making every single stock trade, write-off, etc. into a criminal activity. He sold stock in Lukoil?!?! RuSsiA!!1!1!!! As mike said, it would take teams hours to go through everything - what he didn't say, is that Trump likely pays teams 7 figures a year to stay compliant. If anything serious was in his returns, some "rebel" in the IRS would've released it while he was in office. They'll focus on anything they can find for the next year, and the seals will clap accordingly. As someone with a tax background, it'll be infuriating to watch. But to further answer your question, he's a private citizen who has spent 50+ years doing anything he can to minimize his tax bill, as we all do. When career politicians release their returns, they have spent their whole lives crafting them to be squeaky clean to your average ignorant voter. |
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Post by nephillymike on Dec 29, 2022 20:31:08 GMT -5
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Post by One on Dec 29, 2022 22:20:43 GMT -5
I think you both misunderstood my question. I should have said what is the justification for releasing his tax records? Can they release my records? Yours? I realize nobody would likely be interested, but I have always been under the impression that our tax information was confidential.
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Post by robbieratchet on Dec 30, 2022 9:14:12 GMT -5
I think you both misunderstood my question. I should have said what is the justification for releasing his tax records? Can they release my records? Yours? I realize nobody would likely be interested, but I have always been under the impression that our tax information was confidential. If the Feds decide to come up with a crime you've committed, anything they want can be released related to said "crime." Do you not get that? |
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Post by One on Jan 15, 2023 17:58:50 GMT -5
I think you both misunderstood my question. I should have said what is the justification for releasing his tax records? Can they release my records? Yours? I realize nobody would likely be interested, but I have always been under the impression that our tax information was confidential. If the Feds decide to come up with a crime you've committed, anything they want can be released related to said "crime." Do you not get that? Yeah, I get it. So stepping away from the obvious, reality, my question is what is the law? It sounds like you don't know the answer and, this dead horse is beaten enough. |
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Post by robbieratchet on Jan 15, 2023 21:20:56 GMT -5
If the Feds decide to come up with a crime you've committed, anything they want can be released related to said "crime." Do you not get that? Yeah, I get it. So stepping away from the obvious, reality, my question is what is the law? It sounds like you don't know the answer and, this dead horse is beaten enough. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I just don't think you actually do get it. There is no "law" that is being followed. They're making up whatever they can, and acting on it. Because they can. |
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Post by nephillymike on Jan 16, 2023 20:41:24 GMT -5
Robbie,
A little curious why you didn’t take me up on my message offer to send you the summary of his returns.
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Post by robbieratchet on Jan 17, 2023 16:42:42 GMT -5
Just responded.
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