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Post by robbieratchet on Feb 7, 2022 14:17:54 GMT -5
So Mikey, do you get it yet?
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Post by nephillymike on Feb 8, 2022 22:45:46 GMT -5
Did I get it?
No I did not. Cross my fingers I won’t.
I was vaxed last April and got boosted in December so maybe that helped.
I think when this winds down it will hopefully be the end of this shit for good.
Cases are down almost 70% from its highest a few weeks ago%
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Post by robbieratchet on Feb 9, 2022 11:12:01 GMT -5
I'll take that as a big "no."
Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
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Post by nephillymike on Feb 9, 2022 22:03:00 GMT -5
Huh
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md717
Pro Bowler
Posts: 276
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Post by md717 on Feb 17, 2022 9:26:22 GMT -5
It's an Orwell/1984 reference, the point of which is that language can be changed to reflect the current reality favored by the State - even when it's patently untrue as a matter of fact.
I'm not sure exactly what RR was getting at with that reference, but I do wonder at what point the more reasonable among us will be able to converse honestly about how all of this has gone over the past 23 months.
The abject silliness of it all is beginning to really get to me. The longsuffering Mrs. MD and I recently ventured to the Dominican Republic and back again, having reached our limit of withdrawal from the lack of exposure to the turquoise waters of the Caribbean and the unending hospitality of the Excellence resorts. If my clients could possibly do without my physical presence, I'd consider permanently relocating. One might reasonably wonder why the ever-patient Mrs. MD would want to go with me to the tropics when she could stay home with the cabana boy - but that's a much longer topic we'd have to get into at another time. I digress.
The really silly part was coming back to the US. That was the most stressful part of deciding to go in the first place. What if we tested positive and were denied a flight home? What if we had to stay for an extra 10-14 days until we tested negative? The resort kindly (err, with some financial incentive) volunteered to accommodate us for "free" in such an eventuality - but we were certain that the experience would be less than what we had paid for during the planned portion of the trip. So we decided to go. Such was our hunger for returning to the largesse to which we had become accustomed, and toward which we had worked for so long, prior to the plague. We decided to take the risk.
We knew we had to test negative the day before we were scheduled to fly back. So we went to the "third party" testing facility on the outskirts of the resort where we were met by a clinician who, with a wink and a nod, swabbed the light sockets on her desk lamp and then inserted them into the test tubes for evaluation. I kid, but only barely. She did in fact swab our noses, but it was so superficial that I doubt the swab material was even damp when she was finished. Remember that Mrs. MD is a medical professional who knows how these things ought to be done, and this was not even close. it occurred to us both - to her first, and me second, since she's way smarter - that there were some perverse incentives going on here. If we tested positive, the resort would have to pay to keep us housed and fed for longer than we had paid for. So it seemed that they did whatever necessary to make sure that we were negative. (Bear in mind, we were in no way symptomatic of anything.)
So then we got on the plane to go home. Masks mandatory. Every single person on the flight had just tested negative for Covid - aforementioned skepticism as to the validity of the tests notwithstanding. So why the masks? And then the condescending and ridiculous advice over the PA that passengers were required to restore their masks "between sips" of the adult beverages being served in the first class cabin.
It's all so insane. Forget that the mesh of the standard pleated surgical masks are bigger than the aerosolized particles that carry airborne respiratory viruses. The gaps between the mask and the bridge of the nose are large enough to admit small stuffed animals. Or tiny European countries - Lithuania comes to mind. Either way, if you believe a mask protects you or anyone around you, you are a denier of basic airborne particle dynamics.
Both Mrs. MD and I are double vaxxed and boosted. Mrs. MD got sick anyway several weeks back. She was hurting for a few days, almost a week. Tested positive day 5 or so. Then she was better. Meanwhile I didn't experience a single symptom. (Contrary to popular belief she does tolerate my presence nearly every evening, so my lack of infection was not due to a lack of exposure.)
Honestly I don't know what any of this means. My parents are in their late 70's. I don't want to put them at risk. I'm in my late 50's and have numerous risk factors - but apparently I'm immune as my life partner tested positive and I didn't even get the sniffles. So . . . what??! In the immortal words of Francis A. Schaffer IV - How Shall We Then Live?
I'm open to suggestions, and reasonable discussions. (And hopefully most will appreciate the numerous tongue-in-cheek humorous offerings in this post.)
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Post by robbieratchet on Mar 14, 2022 18:41:13 GMT -5
It's been a while, but yeah, I was basically referring to how we're living in '1984.' It's absolutely astonishing to watch otherwise intelligent people still believe a damn thing they hear from the media.
Covid gets a bad wrap, but it was certainly nice of the virus to completely go away in time for the WWIII drums to occur, in order to raise President Alzheimer's polls a few points before the midterms.
So when I asked if you "get it yet," your answer was a resounding no. Notice how anyone who questions the narrative on Russia/Ukraine is given the same treatment as when covid first started.
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Post by One on Jun 11, 2022 8:14:33 GMT -5
Obviously I'm late to this discussion, and it appears there is added perspective now.
I have to honestly wonder if all of the people who so easily fell in line with the mask/experimental vaccine panic over a virus having something hovering around a 98% survival rate are listening to the revelations we're hearing that confirm many or most of the conspiracy theories (we should also include those of the election and J6).
Now we're being told that, in retrospect, the virus wasn't really all that bad. Sort of like the flu. We hear that it looks like those who are getting sick now are the people who Pfizer, Moderna and J&J experimented on.
Robbie expresses the exact same astonishment I have felt throughout the farce we've been living through for at least 6, more like 14 years. We watch, time and again, as the media tells us something that we later find was either just plain erroneous, manipulated fact or proven to have been intentionally fallacious. We even see evidence that most of the acronym agencies are deeply involved in the mendacity, yet millions of people with more than substantial IQs continue to march to the tune of the pipers.
Forget Orwell, at what point do these well-meaning citizens realize they're reliving the nightmares experienced in Germany, Russia, China, et al? The Russian collusion was manufactured. The quid pro quo was intentionally transferred from Biden to Trump, clumsily yet somehow effectively. The illusion of 81 million votes coupled with coincidental tabulation stoppage in decisive swing states was easily accepted because those who swore allegiance to the collusion, quid pro quo, Orangeman bad narratives had been sufficiently hypnotized. I'm not definitively stating that the election was proven to have been stolen, but when logic confronts coincidence and the charlatans and prevaricators not only demand that we move along, nothing to see here, but they actively oppose and derail attempts to investigate evidence of wrong doing, then functional intelligence will question, not obey.
Obedience allowed the economy to be shut down, millions of people to be injected with an experimental drug (after the government shields the manufacturers from potential disaster), and teachers to tell young boys they can be girls. We can spend a summer watching cities burn and people killed in the name of justice for a genocide that statistically doesn't exist, accept it as mostly peaceful and then nod in agreement when a mass demonstration is manipulated to become an insurrection. And now we're watching an inquisition which purports to be an impartial investigation that excludes facts and witnesses inconvenient to a predetermined verdict.
If we listened to Obama, if we listen to Schwab and if we're able to translate Biden's mumbling gibberish we'll hear what this has all been about. A fundamental transformation to a new world order, even if we don't want it.
But still, to Robbie's point, it's astonishing that intelligent people continue to listen to and stunningly believe a documented mendacious media.
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Post by robbieratchet on Jun 25, 2022 14:08:20 GMT -5
Obviously I'm late to this discussion, and it appears there is added perspective now. I have to honestly wonder if all of the people who so easily fell in line with the mask/experimental vaccine panic over a virus having something hovering around a 98% survival rate are listening to the revelations we're hearing that confirm many or most of the conspiracy theories (we should also include those of the election and J6). Now we're being told that, in retrospect, the virus wasn't really all that bad. Sort of like the flu. We hear that it looks like those who are getting sick now are the people who Pfizer, Moderna and J&J experimented on. Robbie expresses the exact same astonishment I have felt throughout the farce we've been living through for at least 6, more like 14 years. We watch, time and again, as the media tells us something that we later find was either just plain erroneous, manipulated fact or proven to have been intentionally fallacious. We even see evidence that most of the acronym agencies are deeply involved in the mendacity, yet millions of people with more than substantial IQs continue to march to the tune of the pipers. Forget Orwell, at what point do these well-meaning citizens realize they're reliving the nightmares experienced in Germany, Russia, China, et al? The Russian collusion was manufactured. The quid pro quo was intentionally transferred from Biden to Trump, clumsily yet somehow effectively. The illusion of 81 million votes coupled with coincidental tabulation stoppage in decisive swing states was easily accepted because those who swore allegiance to the collusion, quid pro quo, Orangeman bad narratives had been sufficiently hypnotized. I'm not definitively stating that the election was proven to have been stolen, but when logic confronts coincidence and the charlatans and prevaricators not only demand that we move along, nothing to see here, but they actively oppose and derail attempts to investigate evidence of wrong doing, then functional intelligence will question, not obey. Obedience allowed the economy to be shut down, millions of people to be injected with an experimental drug (after the government shields the manufacturers from potential disaster), and teachers to tell young boys they can be girls. We can spend a summer watching cities burn and people killed in the name of justice for a genocide that statistically doesn't exist, accept it as mostly peaceful and then nod in agreement when a mass demonstration is manipulated to become an insurrection. And now we're watching an inquisition which purports to be an impartial investigation that excludes facts and witnesses inconvenient to a predetermined verdict. If we listened to Obama, if we listen to Schwab and if we're able to translate Biden's mumbling gibberish we'll hear what this has all been about. A fundamental transformation to a new world order, even if we don't want it. But still, to Robbie's point, it's astonishing that intelligent people continue to listen to and stunningly believe a documented mendacious media. This is all well put. And we're about to see some pretty big escalations come from the corners of the country who worship abortion. Want to see a real insurrection? Coming soon. |
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Post by nephillymike on Jun 26, 2022 17:58:53 GMT -5
Z,
I will answer you in more detail when I have the time needed to do it justice.
In the meantime, if you guys would indulge me on these two questions:
1. Who won the presidential election, Trump or Biden?
2. How does your opinion of Mike Pence compare to prior to the election? More favorable, the same,less favorable?
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Post by robbieratchet on Jul 1, 2022 10:53:10 GMT -5
Z, I will answer you in more detail when I have the time needed to do it justice. In the meantime, if you guys would indulge me on these two questions: 1. Who won the presidential election, Trump or Biden? 2. How does your opinion of Mike Pence compare to prior to the election? More favorable, the same,less favorable? 1. While we've done this several times, and the statements you've made on this board show that you're incapable of making a fair and rational assessment of anything political involving Trump, I'll indulge you for the hell of it: Trump won in all likelihood. But at the end of the day, most career politicians in his party wanted him gone, and even the ones who were skeptical were going to do what republicans always do: cave in rather than challenge the status quo. In fact, it's the same psychology that leads to your attitude towards him. Speaking of which: 2. Trump needed a squeaky clean VP with no baggage and a good resume - Pence was just about perfect for that. His actions regarding the 2020 election were disappointing, but predictable. I have no special ill will towards him - he's just a typical swamp republican - or "pussy" over "patriot" as it were. |
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md717
Pro Bowler
Posts: 276
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Post by md717 on Jul 1, 2022 22:52:24 GMT -5
Z, I will answer you in more detail when I have the time needed to do it justice. In the meantime, if you guys would indulge me on these two questions: 1. Who won the presidential election, Trump or Biden? 2. How does your opinion of Mike Pence compare to prior to the election? More favorable, the same,less favorable? I'll give it a shot. Slightly different take than Mr. Ratchet. 1. Biden won the election, as a practical matter. The test of "as a practical matter" is - who will be admitted to the oval office, and who will be shot for attempting to enter? But did he win it fairly? That's a much more nuanced question. For example - who won the 2001 AFC Divisional playoff game between the Pats and the Raiders? Practically speaking, the Pats did. They went on to win the SB that year, if I'm not mistaken. But was it fair? Or did something that happened off the field (in the booth) have an impact? Is it OK to discuss and disagree about what happened in that game? Or once the final whistle blew and the result was entered into the books, was all future discussion of the fairness of it off limits? Similarly, some really funky things happened during the 2020 election, almost all of which revolved around Covid. Just look at PA as a microcosm. The PA Democrat leaning courts played a role that the US Constitution does not permit. I don't think it was a question of fraudulent votes or "stuffing the ballot box" - although there was some of that - but it was more a question of changing the rules in ways that were inappropriate and almost always redounded to the benefit of the Democrat candidate. 2. I didn't have strong feelings about Mike Pence when he served in Congress, or as governor of Indiana, or when DT chose him as VP - and I still don't. He seems like a principled individual and I respect that, but . . . he doesn't seem like someone that lots of people will rally behind by virtue of his charisma. I think any suggestion that he could have reversed the outcome of the election is bonkers. |
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Post by nephillymike on Jul 3, 2022 7:33:05 GMT -5
Z, I will answer you in more detail when I have the time needed to do it justice. In the meantime, if you guys would indulge me on these two questions: 1. Who won the presidential election, Trump or Biden? 2. How does your opinion of Mike Pence compare to prior to the election? More favorable, the same,less favorable? 1. While we've done this several times, and the statements you've made on this board show that you're incapable of making a fair and rational assessment of anything political involving Trump, I'll indulge you for the hell of it: Trump won in all likelihood. But at the end of the day, most career politicians in his party wanted him gone, and even the ones who were skeptical were going to do what republicans always do: cave in rather than challenge the status quo. In fact, it's the same psychology that leads to your attitude towards him. Speaking of which: 2. Trump needed a squeaky clean VP with no baggage and a good resume - Pence was just about perfect for that. His actions regarding the 2020 election were disappointing, but predictable. I have no special ill will towards him - he's just a typical swamp republican - or "pussy" over "patriot" as it were. I think I’ve said it on here before, that I am a fan of most of Trump’s policies he enacted while president. He did some good things. I’ve been a Republican since I started voting in the early 80’s. Thank RR for that one. I’m a moderate R, probably a 7 with 10 being furthest right. I’ve always welcomed lively debate as I believed debate did one of two things: force you to listen to the other side and potentially learn something that could change your slant or have the benefit of sharpening your argument by testing it against worthy arguments. Sad to say, this doesn’t exist anymore in America media. Both sides are pussies, afraid to have meaningful debate. I was a huge Fox fan back in the day. I Wouldn’t miss O’Reilly and would watch the shows after him. Their “fair and balanced” mantra was extremely attractive given the cess pool of liberal owned media that spouted the lies and covered up the sins of the left. “Fair & Balanced” has transformed to a culture that thought it was ok not to air the first day of the J6 hearings. The coverage and discussion of that was embarrassingly scarce. Even the pussies in the left media aired the Clinton stuff back in the day. Hear no evil see no evil, circle jerk atmosphere. It’s not just the right media. The left does the same. Sad. My dislike of Trump the person stems from his dealings in Atlantic City prior to throwing his hat in the presidential race. To me, they showed that of a man who had no remorse for his business mistakes and used the bully tactics for personal gain. I thought he’d be a good candidate as a successful business man should be able to run the economy and turn things around in Washington. I was at a poker table at the Trump Plaza near Memorial Day 2015. At that time there were rumors that he would run. if you ever played poker at a casino, many times there is small talk about politics, sports etc. So I say to the dealer, it looks like your old boss is going to run for President, expecting a positive reply, but the guy said flat out “Fuck him”. Right afterwards, two guys at the table chimed in and said the same. The two guys were contractors who did a lot of work for the Trump casinos and they proceeded to tell the story how Trump called them in his office to strong arm them to take cents on the dollar in money he owed them and said take it or leave it. My lawyers are better than your lawyers and this is the best you’ll get. Now me owning a small business at the time, that struck a cord. My brother in law is in the trades and he knew a lot of businesses and contractors at the Jersey shore and he verified that Trump was using that tactic with numerous smaller businesses. It wasn’t just what he was doing, but the lack of remorse with how he went about it. The question for me at that time, was could you trust a guy with six bankruptcies and what I deemed to be a lack of character, to be in charge of the biggest trough in the world, the US government where everyone gets a free dip in the till. I didn’t trust him. Maybe I’m naive, but to me character matters as a President has a lot of moments when character comes into play. None of this is an endorsement of our current President as I think when the dust clears, you will get verification that he knew about his sons dealings but that is a topic for another day. I wouldn’t classify me as a never Trumper, but I’d say I’m close. His policies do temp to look away at some of this, but I choose not to. Now onto the election results. I have an analytical and audit background, and at the request of a friend I looked into the election results to see if anything stood out. I spent about four hours on the analysis and concluded in all probability, he lost the election. It was fairly easy in that there were only a few swing states and only a few counties within those states that could tilt the results.He lost. I did this analysis in late December or early January after the election. Now we hear that many in his inner circle knew he lost too. imagine that. I wasn’t expecting much out of the commission, but it has been damning, more than I ever thought possible. Hopefully you didn’t contribute too much to his bogus Official Election Defense Fund. Like the employees in AC, the contractors in AC, the bond holders and stockholders in AC, count yourself as contributing to Trump the grifter. Unlike the other stakeholders who lost on trusting the Donald, the political contributors to his grift just do their best Kevin Bacon impersonation “Thank You Sir May I Have Another”. Get mad. you got screwed. You were had. There’s no shame in that. Many people smarter than us invested in him and his bankrupt businesses. If this had been your normal bogus fraudulent money raising scheme, those who donated would file a class action suit to recoup their money. Not with the Donald. Thank you sir......... As far as Pence goes, I didn’t know much about him prior to his VP role. He seemed like a clean straight laced guy which was fine by me. Now we hear about Trumps comments and complete disregard for his safety. If I were Pence, I’d testify and hang the Donald by his balls. Pence, more than anyone else, has the right to put the dagger in this guy. We’ll see if he does it. His dealing with the BS gives him more points in my book. However, I don’t think he’d be able to get much political benefit from it. it will be interesting to see where this J6 committee comes up with in the next few months. I am not naive to not know of its political motivations. But, if there’s no smoke, there’s no fire. THeres a bunch of shit that happened and needs to be revealed. Maybe that lawyer Ciplione (sp) will testify. Of course the J6 It should be more we’ll rounded definitely. I would open it up to all Trump supporters in the inner circle. Come in, take the oath and have a seat. Let’s hear what you have to say. Again, don’t be scared Chaney. Debate and disagreements is what made this country great. Have the courage to hear from all sides. Supporters, have the courage to take the oath and have a seat and tell us what you know. Inquiring minds want to know. As far as the Republican Party and conservatism go, we deserve better. I’m not sure who that is right now, but we deserve a better leader than Trump. We can’t fall on the sword for him. If we made a mistake, admit it, learn from it, and , move on. We just need to find someone good enough to beat Biden for crissakes. Shouldn’t be hard. The longer we defend the loser, the more it jeopardizes the real goal, getting a worthy candidate that can win in 2024 and promote conservative ideals. |
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Post by nephillymike on Jul 4, 2022 10:14:42 GMT -5
Obviously I'm late to this discussion, and it appears there is added perspective now. I have to honestly wonder if all of the people who so easily fell in line with the mask/experimental vaccine panic over a virus having something hovering around a 98% survival rate are listening to the revelations we're hearing that confirm many or most of the conspiracy theories (we should also include those of the election and J6). Now we're being told that, in retrospect, the virus wasn't really all that bad. Sort of like the flu. We hear that it looks like those who are getting sick now are the people who Pfizer, Moderna and J&J experimented on. Robbie expresses the exact same astonishment I have felt throughout the farce we've been living through for at least 6, more like 14 years. We watch, time and again, as the media tells us something that we later find was either just plain erroneous, manipulated fact or proven to have been intentionally fallacious. We even see evidence that most of the acronym agencies are deeply involved in the mendacity, yet millions of people with more than substantial IQs continue to march to the tune of the pipers. Forget Orwell, at what point do these well-meaning citizens realize they're reliving the nightmares experienced in Germany, Russia, China, et al? The Russian collusion was manufactured. The quid pro quo was intentionally transferred from Biden to Trump, clumsily yet somehow effectively. The illusion of 81 million votes coupled with coincidental tabulation stoppage in decisive swing states was easily accepted because those who swore allegiance to the collusion, quid pro quo, Orangeman bad narratives had been sufficiently hypnotized. I'm not definitively stating that the election was proven to have been stolen, but when logic confronts coincidence and the charlatans and prevaricators not only demand that we move along, nothing to see here, but they actively oppose and derail attempts to investigate evidence of wrong doing, then functional intelligence will question, not obey. Obedience allowed the economy to be shut down, millions of people to be injected with an experimental drug (after the government shields the manufacturers from potential disaster), and teachers to tell young boys they can be girls. We can spend a summer watching cities burn and people killed in the name of justice for a genocide that statistically doesn't exist, accept it as mostly peaceful and then nod in agreement when a mass demonstration is manipulated to become an insurrection. And now we're watching an inquisition which purports to be an impartial investigation that excludes facts and witnesses inconvenient to a predetermined verdict. If we listened to Obama, if we listen to Schwab and if we're able to translate Biden's mumbling gibberish we'll hear what this has all been about. A fundamental transformation to a new world order, even if we don't want it. But still, to Robbie's point, it's astonishing that intelligent people continue to listen to and stunningly believe a documented mendacious media. Damn Z, You touched on a lot of subjects and conspiracies in this post. Ill ask a few questions to make sure I know your talking points. Once I know them, it probably sets up better for one of our famous political phone calls !! Trying to go in order to make sure I have the talking points. Not debating any at this time, just trying to understand them - the mask mandate was not a good idea - it was wrong to use the vaccines as they didn’t go through the normal testing protocols - a 98% survival rate is an acceptable rate as to not require shortening protocols and other measures - the corona virus is like the flu - the election results as well as the J6 hearings are conspiracy theories - the fact that some vaccinated people are getting the virus is proof the vax were a bad idea - I don’t know what you mean by quid pro quo transfer with Biden and Trump. please elaborate for my understanding - the Russian collusion was manufactured - the media continues to tell us wrong narratives - the shutdown of the economy was unnecessary and planned for other reasons - it’s wrong to allow people born one sex to claim to be another sex - the looting and burning and violence as a protest of genocide is misguided and based on falsehoods - they are incorrectly classifying the J6 demonstration into an insurrection - the J6 is purposefully excluding witnesses to feed a narrative - Obama, Schwab and Biden want a new world order. On this one, describe what the new world order is and who is Schwab? I may have a longer than usual commute after work one night this week and would love to discuss these issues on the phone like is our thing. It’s been a while LOL. If you didn’t live in Bumfuck, Pa, we could have a beer over this but I digress. In the meantime, if you could clear up the few things I didn’t follow and any other items I misinterpreted, that would be a good start. BTW, it won’t be Tuesday. Probably Wednesday or Thursday if your done heading the sheep by that time! |
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Post by nephillymike on Jul 4, 2022 10:18:24 GMT -5
Z, I will answer you in more detail when I have the time needed to do it justice. In the meantime, if you guys would indulge me on these two questions: 1. Who won the presidential election, Trump or Biden? 2. How does your opinion of Mike Pence compare to prior to the election? More favorable, the same,less favorable? I'll give it a shot. Slightly different take than Mr. Ratchet. 1. Biden won the election, as a practical matter. The test of "as a practical matter" is - who will be admitted to the oval office, and who will be shot for attempting to enter? But did he win it fairly? That's a much more nuanced question. For example - who won the 2001 AFC Divisional playoff game between the Pats and the Raiders? Practically speaking, the Pats did. They went on to win the SB that year, if I'm not mistaken. But was it fair? Or did something that happened off the field (in the booth) have an impact? Is it OK to discuss and disagree about what happened in that game? Or once the final whistle blew and the result was entered into the books, was all future discussion of the fairness of it off limits? Similarly, some really funky things happened during the 2020 election, almost all of which revolved around Covid. Just look at PA as a microcosm. The PA Democrat leaning courts played a role that the US Constitution does not permit. I don't think it was a question of fraudulent votes or "stuffing the ballot box" - although there was some of that - but it was more a question of changing the rules in ways that were inappropriate and almost always redounded to the benefit of the Democrat candidate. 2. I didn't have strong feelings about Mike Pence when he served in Congress, or as governor of Indiana, or when DT chose him as VP - and I still don't. He seems like a principled individual and I respect that, but . . . he doesn't seem like someone that lots of people will rally behind by virtue of his charisma. I think any suggestion that he could have reversed the outcome of the election is bonkers. Hey MD, It seems that you are saying that there were some things in place in PA that could have made it easier for a Biden win, but no proof that anything cost Trump the loss in PA. IS that fair? Hope all is ok with you and the family. How is everyone doing? |
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Post by One on Jul 5, 2022 9:31:36 GMT -5
Obviously I'm late to this discussion, and it appears there is added perspective now. I have to honestly wonder if all of the people who so easily fell in line with the mask/experimental vaccine panic over a virus having something hovering around a 98% survival rate are listening to the revelations we're hearing that confirm many or most of the conspiracy theories (we should also include those of the election and J6). Now we're being told that, in retrospect, the virus wasn't really all that bad. Sort of like the flu. We hear that it looks like those who are getting sick now are the people who Pfizer, Moderna and J&J experimented on. Robbie expresses the exact same astonishment I have felt throughout the farce we've been living through for at least 6, more like 14 years. We watch, time and again, as the media tells us something that we later find was either just plain erroneous, manipulated fact or proven to have been intentionally fallacious. We even see evidence that most of the acronym agencies are deeply involved in the mendacity, yet millions of people with more than substantial IQs continue to march to the tune of the pipers. Forget Orwell, at what point do these well-meaning citizens realize they're reliving the nightmares experienced in Germany, Russia, China, et al? The Russian collusion was manufactured. The quid pro quo was intentionally transferred from Biden to Trump, clumsily yet somehow effectively. The illusion of 81 million votes coupled with coincidental tabulation stoppage in decisive swing states was easily accepted because those who swore allegiance to the collusion, quid pro quo, Orangeman bad narratives had been sufficiently hypnotized. I'm not definitively stating that the election was proven to have been stolen, but when logic confronts coincidence and the charlatans and prevaricators not only demand that we move along, nothing to see here, but they actively oppose and derail attempts to investigate evidence of wrong doing, then functional intelligence will question, not obey. Obedience allowed the economy to be shut down, millions of people to be injected with an experimental drug (after the government shields the manufacturers from potential disaster), and teachers to tell young boys they can be girls. We can spend a summer watching cities burn and people killed in the name of justice for a genocide that statistically doesn't exist, accept it as mostly peaceful and then nod in agreement when a mass demonstration is manipulated to become an insurrection. And now we're watching an inquisition which purports to be an impartial investigation that excludes facts and witnesses inconvenient to a predetermined verdict. If we listened to Obama, if we listen to Schwab and if we're able to translate Biden's mumbling gibberish we'll hear what this has all been about. A fundamental transformation to a new world order, even if we don't want it. But still, to Robbie's point, it's astonishing that intelligent people continue to listen to and stunningly believe a documented mendacious media. Damn Z, You touched on a lot of subjects and conspiracies in this post. Ill ask a few questions to make sure I know your talking points. Once I know them, it probably sets up better for one of our famous political phone calls !! Trying to go in order to make sure I have the talking points. Not debating any at this time, just trying to understand them - the mask mandate was not a good idea - it was wrong to use the vaccines as they didn’t go through the normal testing protocols - a 98% survival rate is an acceptable rate as to not require shortening protocols and other measures - the corona virus is like the flu - the election results as well as the J6 hearings are conspiracy theories - the fact that some vaccinated people are getting the virus is proof the vax were a bad idea - I don’t know what you mean by quid pro quo transfer with Biden and Trump. please elaborate for my understanding - the Russian collusion was manufactured - the media continues to tell us wrong narratives - the shutdown of the economy was unnecessary and planned for other reasons - it’s wrong to allow people born one sex to claim to be another sex - the looting and burning and violence as a protest of genocide is misguided and based on falsehoods - they are incorrectly classifying the J6 demonstration into an insurrection - the J6 is purposefully excluding witnesses to feed a narrative - Obama, Schwab and Biden want a new world order. On this one, describe what the new world order is and who is Schwab? I may have a longer than usual commute after work one night this week and would love to discuss these issues on the phone like is our thing. It’s been a while LOL. If you didn’t live in Bumfuck, Pa, we could have a beer over this but I digress. In the meantime, if you could clear up the few things I didn’t follow and any other items I misinterpreted, that would be a good start. BTW, it won’t be Tuesday. Probably Wednesday or Thursday if your done heading the sheep by that time! If I haven't said so before, I'm an Independent. I can probably count the number of politicians I trust or that have character on one hand. That may be a bit of an exaggeration, but most of them are trained and educated in the fine art of prestidigitation. I have never been a fan of Trump the man - his personality and his almost unmatched ability to elevate a controversy to irreparable heights - but I recognize the need to confront the lies not only perpetrated by his opposition, but most importantly by the fourth estate. The media, what we once called the press, is charged with the sacred responsibilities of remaining politically neutral and searching for and reporting facts, aka truth. They have failed miserably, which is in large part, the foundation for each question you have asked me as well as your rant on Trump, the man. And, unless I misread your comments, although both right-leaning and left-leaning reporters engage in dishonesty, those on the left are far worse, if for no other reason than those companies control what is regarded as the legacy or mainstream news agencies. They are the sources I believe the majority of Americans access for their news. Fox, incidentally, has mostly joined their ranks while retaining the guise of "fair and balanced." To answer your two questions: 1) Obviously Biden won the election because he was inaugurated and is doing a wonderful job of destroying America as it was designed. And, by the way, if you'd like to compare the character of Biden and Trump and are willing to do difficult research (impeded by search engines), you may be surprised by which man gets the halo despite the low rating of the Donald you've provided. However, as MD pointed out, was the election what we were told it was? Recent news from places like Georgia, Arizona, Wisconsin and Michigan, in addition to what had been previously reported from those states and Pennsylvania, cast a significant shadow on the authenticity of the process which, incidentally, all had been addressed in depth by the dishonest media following the elections of 2004 and 2016. Many of the questions and accusations from the 2020 election that are ridiculed were demonstrated to be serious concerns in 2016, just as the concerns from 2004 resurfaced in 2016 and were again derided by essentially the same people who raised the alarm in the previous elections. So, with respect, a critical review of the personalities, deceptive reporting and emerging news should cause an honest and objective person to question the true winner of the 2020 presidential election or, if nothing else, the process that determined the victor. 2) Mike Pence is, by all appearances, a deeply spiritual and honest individual. I don't believe he was asked to determine the outcome of the election, but to provide a Constitutional check on the results. I don't know if the request was proper, but I believe Pence did what he thought was best for the country and the right thing. I think the consequences may have been dire if he had done what was asked of him. Beers would be far better, especially out here in the wilds where we could entertain the gnats, snakes, woodchucks, deer, bear, turkey, bobcats and rednecks while we're being entertained by the chipmunks. But it'd be great to talk with the NSA too.  After 5:30 - 6? Give me a heads up. |
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md717
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Post by md717 on Jul 5, 2022 22:32:34 GMT -5
I'll give it a shot. Slightly different take than Mr. Ratchet. 1. Biden won the election, as a practical matter. The test of "as a practical matter" is - who will be admitted to the oval office, and who will be shot for attempting to enter? But did he win it fairly? That's a much more nuanced question. For example - who won the 2001 AFC Divisional playoff game between the Pats and the Raiders? Practically speaking, the Pats did. They went on to win the SB that year, if I'm not mistaken. But was it fair? Or did something that happened off the field (in the booth) have an impact? Is it OK to discuss and disagree about what happened in that game? Or once the final whistle blew and the result was entered into the books, was all future discussion of the fairness of it off limits? Similarly, some really funky things happened during the 2020 election, almost all of which revolved around Covid. Just look at PA as a microcosm. The PA Democrat leaning courts played a role that the US Constitution does not permit. I don't think it was a question of fraudulent votes or "stuffing the ballot box" - although there was some of that - but it was more a question of changing the rules in ways that were inappropriate and almost always redounded to the benefit of the Democrat candidate. 2. I didn't have strong feelings about Mike Pence when he served in Congress, or as governor of Indiana, or when DT chose him as VP - and I still don't. He seems like a principled individual and I respect that, but . . . he doesn't seem like someone that lots of people will rally behind by virtue of his charisma. I think any suggestion that he could have reversed the outcome of the election is bonkers. Hey MD, It seems that you are saying that there were some things in place in PA that could have made it easier for a Biden win, but no proof that anything cost Trump the loss in PA. IS that fair? Hope all is ok with you and the family. How is everyone doing? Everyone's great here, Mike - thanks for asking. Our first granddaughter was born today - which is awesome. The only downside is that son and daughter-in-law who are the new parents live in Reno and Mrs. MD is having a hard time with that. Investing in real estate over the last decade or so makes me look like a damn genius, even though (as we all know) it's better to be lucky than good.  Back in the day I could only afford to let my Avalanche run all night (to piss Eyrie off) one night a week . . . now it's 24/7. Life is good! I hope you and family are thriving as well. To put a slightly sharper point on your summation - yes, there were some things in place in PA that made a Biden win easier. Whatever the act was that Republicans joined in passing in 2019 that made mail-in balloting easier, for example. But it was more than that. It was a changing and an enhancement of the rules on the fly by the state supreme court usurping the role of the legislature that significantly tipped the balance. SCOTUS has agreed to hear a couple of cases on this topic next term. Too late for 2020, of course, but . . . should be interesting. |
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md717
Pro Bowler
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Post by md717 on Jul 5, 2022 22:51:08 GMT -5
Damn Z, You touched on a lot of subjects and conspiracies in this post. Ill ask a few questions to make sure I know your talking points. Once I know them, it probably sets up better for one of our famous political phone calls !! Trying to go in order to make sure I have the talking points. Not debating any at this time, just trying to understand them - the mask mandate was not a good idea - it was wrong to use the vaccines as they didn’t go through the normal testing protocols - a 98% survival rate is an acceptable rate as to not require shortening protocols and other measures - the corona virus is like the flu - the election results as well as the J6 hearings are conspiracy theories - the fact that some vaccinated people are getting the virus is proof the vax were a bad idea - I don’t know what you mean by quid pro quo transfer with Biden and Trump. please elaborate for my understanding - the Russian collusion was manufactured - the media continues to tell us wrong narratives - the shutdown of the economy was unnecessary and planned for other reasons - it’s wrong to allow people born one sex to claim to be another sex - the looting and burning and violence as a protest of genocide is misguided and based on falsehoods - they are incorrectly classifying the J6 demonstration into an insurrection - the J6 is purposefully excluding witnesses to feed a narrative - Obama, Schwab and Biden want a new world order. On this one, describe what the new world order is and who is Schwab? I may have a longer than usual commute after work one night this week and would love to discuss these issues on the phone like is our thing. It’s been a while LOL. If you didn’t live in Bumfuck, Pa, we could have a beer over this but I digress. In the meantime, if you could clear up the few things I didn’t follow and any other items I misinterpreted, that would be a good start. BTW, it won’t be Tuesday. Probably Wednesday or Thursday if your done heading the sheep by that time! If I haven't said so before, I'm an Independent. I can probably count the number of politicians I trust or that have character on one hand. That may be a bit of an exaggeration, but most of them are trained and educated in the fine art of prestidigitation. I have never been a fan of Trump the man - his personality and his almost unmatched ability to elevate a controversy to irreparable heights - but I recognize the need to confront the lies not only perpetrated by his opposition, but most importantly by the fourth estate. The media, what we once called the press, is charged with the sacred responsibilities of remaining politically neutral and searching for and reporting facts, aka truth. They have failed miserably, which is in large part, the foundation for each question you have asked me as well as your rant on Trump, the man. And, unless I misread your comments, although both right-leaning and left-leaning reporters engage in dishonesty, those on the left are far worse, if for no other reason than those companies control what is regarded as the legacy or mainstream news agencies. They are the sources I believe the majority of Americans access for their news. Fox, incidentally, has mostly joined their ranks while retaining the guise of "fair and balanced." To answer your two questions: 1) Obviously Biden won the election because he was inaugurated and is doing a wonderful job of destroying America as it was designed. And, by the way, if you'd like to compare the character of Biden and Trump and are willing to do difficult research (impeded by search engines), you may be surprised by which man gets the halo despite the low rating of the Donald you've provided. However, as MD pointed out, was the election what we were told it was? Recent news from places like Georgia, Arizona, Wisconsin and Michigan, in addition to what had been previously reported from those states and Pennsylvania, cast a significant shadow on the authenticity of the process which, incidentally, all had been addressed in depth by the dishonest media following the elections of 2004 and 2016. Many of the questions and accusations from the 2020 election that are ridiculed were demonstrated to be serious concerns in 2016, just as the concerns from 2004 resurfaced in 2016 and were again derided by essentially the same people who raised the alarm in the previous elections. So, with respect, a critical review of the personalities, deceptive reporting and emerging news should cause an honest and objective person to question the true winner of the 2020 presidential election or, if nothing else, the process that determined the victor. 2) Mike Pence is, by all appearances, a deeply spiritual and honest individual. I don't believe he was asked to determine the outcome of the election, but to provide a Constitutional check on the results. I don't know if the request was proper, but I believe Pence did what he thought was best for the country and the right thing. I think the consequences may have been dire if he had done what was asked of him. Beers would be far better, especially out here in the wilds where we could entertain the gnats, snakes, woodchucks, deer, bear, turkey, bobcats and rednecks while we're being entertained by the chipmunks. But it'd be great to talk with the NSA too.  After 5:30 - 6? Give me a heads up. Damn, O - you made me look up a word!! (I'll admit I was a little afraid of what the definition might be, given some of the root words involved!) |
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Post by robbieratchet on Jul 10, 2022 17:21:53 GMT -5
“Fair & Balanced” has transformed to a culture that thought it was ok not to air the first day of the J6 hearings. The coverage and discussion of that was embarrassingly scarce. Even the pussies in the left media aired the Clinton stuff back in the day. I was at a poker table at the Trump Plaza near Memorial Day 2015. At that time there were rumors that he would run. if you ever played poker at a casino, many times there is small talk about politics, sports etc. So I say to the dealer, it looks like your old boss is going to run for President, expecting a positive reply, but the guy said flat out “Fuck him”. Right afterwards, two guys at the table chimed in and said the same. The two guys were contractors who did a lot of work for the Trump casinos and they proceeded to tell the story how Trump called them in his office to strong arm them to take cents on the dollar in money he owed them and said take it or leave it. The question for me at that time, was could you trust a guy with six bankruptcies None of this is an endorsement of our current President as I think when the dust clears, you will get verification that he knew about his sons dealings but that is a topic for another day. Now onto the election results. I have an analytical and audit background, and at the request of a friend I looked into the election results to see if anything stood out. I spent about four hours on the analysis and concluded in all probability, he lost the election. It was fairly easy in that there were only a few swing states and only a few counties within those states that could tilt the results.He lost. I did this analysis in late December or early January after the election. Now we hear that many in his inner circle knew he lost too. imagine that. I wasn’t expecting much out of the commission, but it has been damning, more than I ever thought possible. Hopefully you didn’t contribute too much to his bogus Official Election Defense Fund. As far as Pence goes, I didn’t know much about him prior to his VP role. He seemed like a clean straight laced guy which was fine by me. Now we hear about Trumps comments and complete disregard for his safety. it will be interesting to see where this J6 committee comes up with in the next few months. As far as the Republican Party and conservatism go, we deserve better. I’m not sure who that is right now, but we deserve a better leader than Trump. We can’t fall on the sword for him. If we made a mistake, admit it, learn from it, and , move on. We just need to find someone good enough to beat Biden for crissakes. Shouldn’t be hard. The longer we defend the loser, the more it jeopardizes the real goal, getting a worthy candidate that can win in 2024 and promote conservative ideals. I appreciate the response, I obviously edited your post down and will do some bullet point responses. -I hate to break it to you, but the only people in the country who give a rat's ass about the "Jan 6th committee" either already hate Trump, or truly feared for their lives that day. Unfortunately for the rest of us, it turned out to be a mostly peaceful protest. I eagerly await the hearings on where covid-19 came from (a lab in China funded by taxpayers via Anthony Fauci), and the BLM/Antifa riots that happened all summer. Just kidding. -Trump has filed for Chapter 11 reorganization 4 times with his companies, to my knowledge. Also to my knowledge, all 4 were Casinos in AC. Also to my knowledge, he has had over 500 businesses, and I don't think he's ever printed trillions of dollars out of thin air, or gotten trillions of dollars into debt. Your anecdote is pretty lame, but the first thing I would ask the contractors, is "why are you giving him more money at this casino? There's plenty of others around." I'm sure their answer would be more interesting than their story. -You voted for an Alzheimer's patient who has spent his entire adult life living off of your money. At a time where Americans are getting killed with inflation and at the pump, he just sold a million dollars of our strategic oil reserves to a Chinese company that Hunter Biden has a $1.7 billion stake in. I'm sure you must have missed that story because you were watching hearings about how The Donald used a curse word in January of 2021. Biden also sending military equipment to another country that has made his family rich, while trying to get us into a war with a nuclear power on their behalf. "When the dust settles." Bill Clinton is a pedophile and a rapist, who flew many times to Jeffrey Epstein's island to diddle underage girls. Hillary Clinton has threatened her husband's rape victims and destroyed them publicly. They have both had dozens of people killed to cover up their crimes. Yet you've written entire essays on how bad Trump is, while never sparing a word on any of them. So forgive me for chalking up your hatred of Trump to some level of narcissistic virtue-signaling. I don't mean that as an insult, it's just certainly become a thing the last few years. Kinzinger, Cheney, Navarro, Boot, etc. -In recent years, ballot-dumping as an election strategy has become the left's major tool in close elections. Register as many people as possible, and at a certain point when you decide how many votes you need to win after 80-90% are in, fill ballots out with registered voters who haven't voted, and dump them in. Since you don't have to show ID to vote, this works pretty easily. Also, the ballot dumps come from inner city precincts which are 100% controlled by Democrats. In almost all other precincts, this wouldn't work very well with a mixture of affiliations. The first time I noticed this was the Coleman/Franken Senate election in Minnesota in '08 - that was a slightly different circumstance, as the irregularities occurred mostly after the mandatory recount. It's been done in several Senate/House races since then, and of course in certain swing states before. This was the first time it happened blatantly in almost every swing state, and in at least 4 Senate races, including the 2 in the Georgia runoff. An actual publicized investigation (I don't know, maybe a hearing?!) would have kept the situation cool. Instead, were told to shut up and accept it, while being called names. I've seen the videos of people filling out ballots, of covering up windows outside polling places, etc., and that's on top of the analytical impossibilities that occurred that night. So no, it was blatantly stolen, and they gave us the finger while doing it. To be sure, Trump also did this to himself. Elections can only be stolen if they're close enough. He handed over the keys of our country to Anthony Fauci over the flu with a 99.9% survival rate, while allowing Dem mayors/governors to destroy our entire economy, followed by allowing mass riots. He lost a chunk of suburban white middle class voters over this, as he rightfully should have. I would go so far as to say most of what happened in 2020 was designed to get him out of office. He was a true outsider and threatened the status quo. Ironically, his biggest issue was putting so many Swamp creatures in his inner circle. If he stuck to his campaign promises (specifically on immigration) and didn't allow his enemies to destroy the entire country in a matter of 6 months, he would've won by enough to where cheating wouldn't have helped. |
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Post by nephillymike on Jul 11, 2022 4:55:49 GMT -5
“Fair & Balanced” has transformed to a culture that thought it was ok not to air the first day of the J6 hearings. The coverage and discussion of that was embarrassingly scarce. Even the pussies in the left media aired the Clinton stuff back in the day. I was at a poker table at the Trump Plaza near Memorial Day 2015. At that time there were rumors that he would run. if you ever played poker at a casino, many times there is small talk about politics, sports etc. So I say to the dealer, it looks like your old boss is going to run for President, expecting a positive reply, but the guy said flat out “Fuck him”. Right afterwards, two guys at the table chimed in and said the same. The two guys were contractors who did a lot of work for the Trump casinos and they proceeded to tell the story how Trump called them in his office to strong arm them to take cents on the dollar in money he owed them and said take it or leave it. The question for me at that time, was could you trust a guy with six bankruptcies None of this is an endorsement of our current President as I think when the dust clears, you will get verification that he knew about his sons dealings but that is a topic for another day. Now onto the election results. I have an analytical and audit background, and at the request of a friend I looked into the election results to see if anything stood out. I spent about four hours on the analysis and concluded in all probability, he lost the election. It was fairly easy in that there were only a few swing states and only a few counties within those states that could tilt the results.He lost. I did this analysis in late December or early January after the election. Now we hear that many in his inner circle knew he lost too. imagine that. I wasn’t expecting much out of the commission, but it has been damning, more than I ever thought possible. Hopefully you didn’t contribute too much to his bogus Official Election Defense Fund. As far as Pence goes, I didn’t know much about him prior to his VP role. He seemed like a clean straight laced guy which was fine by me. Now we hear about Trumps comments and complete disregard for his safety. it will be interesting to see where this J6 committee comes up with in the next few months. As far as the Republican Party and conservatism go, we deserve better. I’m not sure who that is right now, but we deserve a better leader than Trump. We can’t fall on the sword for him. If we made a mistake, admit it, learn from it, and , move on. We just need to find someone good enough to beat Biden for crissakes. Shouldn’t be hard. The longer we defend the loser, the more it jeopardizes the real goal, getting a worthy candidate that can win in 2024 and promote conservative ideals. I appreciate the response, I obviously edited your post down and will do some bullet point responses. -I hate to break it to you, but the only people in the country who give a rat's ass about the "Jan 6th committee" either already hate Trump, or truly feared for their lives that day. Unfortunately for the rest of us, it turned out to be a mostly peaceful protest. I eagerly await the hearings on where covid-19 came from (a lab in China funded by taxpayers via Anthony Fauci), and the BLM/Antifa riots that happened all summer. Just kidding. -Trump has filed for Chapter 11 reorganization 4 times with his companies, to my knowledge. Also to my knowledge, all 4 were Casinos in AC. Also to my knowledge, he has had over 500 businesses, and I don't think he's ever printed trillions of dollars out of thin air, or gotten trillions of dollars into debt. Your anecdote is pretty lame, but the first thing I would ask the contractors, is "why are you giving him more money at this casino? There's plenty of others around." I'm sure their answer would be more interesting than their story. -You voted for an Alzheimer's patient who has spent his entire adult life living off of your money. At a time where Americans are getting killed with inflation and at the pump, he just sold a million dollars of our strategic oil reserves to a Chinese company that Hunter Biden has a $1.7 billion stake in. I'm sure you must have missed that story because you were watching hearings about how The Donald used a curse word in January of 2021. Biden also sending military equipment to another country that has made his family rich, while trying to get us into a war with a nuclear power on their behalf. "When the dust settles." Bill Clinton is a pedophile and a rapist, who flew many times to Jeffrey Epstein's island to diddle underage girls. Hillary Clinton has threatened her husband's rape victims and destroyed them publicly. They have both had dozens of people killed to cover up their crimes. Yet you've written entire essays on how bad Trump is, while never sparing a word on any of them. So forgive me for chalking up your hatred of Trump to some level of narcissistic virtue-signaling. I don't mean that as an insult, it's just certainly become a thing the last few years. Kinzinger, Cheney, Navarro, Boot, etc. -In recent years, ballot-dumping as an election strategy has become the left's major tool in close elections. Register as many people as possible, and at a certain point when you decide how many votes you need to win after 80-90% are in, fill ballots out with registered voters who haven't voted, and dump them in. Since you don't have to show ID to vote, this works pretty easily. Also, the ballot dumps come from inner city precincts which are 100% controlled by Democrats. In almost all other precincts, this wouldn't work very well with a mixture of affiliations. The first time I noticed this was the Coleman/Franken Senate election in Minnesota in '08 - that was a slightly different circumstance, as the irregularities occurred mostly after the mandatory recount. It's been done in several Senate/House races since then, and of course in certain swing states before. This was the first time it happened blatantly in almost every swing state, and in at least 4 Senate races, including the 2 in the Georgia runoff. An actual publicized investigation (I don't know, maybe a hearing?!) would have kept the situation cool. Instead, were told to shut up and accept it, while being called names. I've seen the videos of people filling out ballots, of covering up windows outside polling places, etc., and that's on top of the analytical impossibilities that occurred that night. So no, it was blatantly stolen, and they gave us the finger while doing it. To be sure, Trump also did this to himself. Elections can only be stolen if they're close enough. He handed over the keys of our country to Anthony Fauci over the flu with a 99.9% survival rate, while allowing Dem mayors/governors to destroy our entire economy, followed by allowing mass riots. He lost a chunk of suburban white middle class voters over this, as he rightfully should have. I would go so far as to say most of what happened in 2020 was designed to get him out of office. He was a true outsider and threatened the status quo. Ironically, his biggest issue was putting so many Swamp creatures in his inner circle. If he stuck to his campaign promises (specifically on immigration) and didn't allow his enemies to destroy the entire country in a matter of 6 months, he would've won by enough to where cheating wouldn't have helped. Trump filed for bankruptcy six times www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2016/live-updates/general-election/real-time-fact-checking-and-analysis-of-the-first-presidential-debate/fact-check-has-trump-declared-bankruptcy-four-or-six-times/I need to look it up but I remember seeing it was the most bankruptcies field by one person over that time period. But to his fans, it could have been 50 bankruptcies and they wouldn’t care. I didn’t vote for Biden. Fuck no. Voted for a female Libertarian candidate Jo somebody as that was easier than trying to figure out how to write in vote for myself. While my presidential vote was wasted, still got to vote for Repubs in other races. Got to run to work will reply on rest later. |
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Post by robbieratchet on Jul 11, 2022 11:54:19 GMT -5
Trump has never filed for bankruptcy. He has had 4 of his businesses file for Chapter 11 reorganization. Supposedly 3 of those businesses were under one umbrella, but whatever, let's call it 6. He's had over 500 businesses. He's entering a town where career bureaucrats who couldn't run a McDonald's print trillions of dollars out of thin air while killing our whole economy. You're right, I wouldn't give a rat's ass if he ran for president while begging for change on the street. Most bums are more financially responsible than anyone in Washington. You voted for Jo? Hey, at least you get to say you're part of the 1%. |
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md717
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Post by md717 on Jul 12, 2022 19:53:45 GMT -5
RR - Chapter 11 is part of the bankruptcy code. If your business "files chapter 11" - you've filed for bankruptcy. The bankruptcy code (chapters 7, 11, and 13) offer protection to debtors from certain collection actions that creditors could normally take. Aside from actual bankruptcy filings, Trump "negotiated" with creditors under the threat of filing for bankruptcy. A very subtle difference, in my book. Trump was the poster child for the old maxim "If you owe the bank a million dollars and you fall on hard times, you have a big problem. If you owe the bank 100 million dollars and you fall on hard times, the bank has a big problem."
I voted for Trump twice. The first time was harder than the second. The first time came down to the people he proposed to nominate to the Supreme Court. I was skeptical that he would keep his word, but I knew who Hillary would nominate. So I took a chance that Trump meant what he said, and that paid off in spades.
But you have to admit the man has serious flaws. I hope he doesn't run again. From a practical standpoint, I'd prefer to support a candidate who is eligible to hold the office for two terms.
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Post by One on Jul 13, 2022 18:52:37 GMT -5
It seems where we get our information and how willing we are to dig for counter narratives is the difference in political perspective. That, and looking at news not as separate, independent stories, but treating them as a jig saw puzzle. Mikey and I talked about this the other night, looking at J6 as a legitimate investigation considering what we know in retrospect of the other two Trump investigations is counter intuitive, especially in light of the Democrats literally stacking the committee with Trump haters including Republicans. "Counter intuitive" is probably too gentle a description, just as criticizing his presidency in a vacuum while dismissing the non-stop tag team assaults on him and his family by the media and the leftists. Looking at all of what the left has done in the past five years alone and tying it all together we have a pretty clear map of where they are headed.
I too hope fervently that he doesn't run in 2024. I voted for him once and against Clinton once. Against Clinton because I didn't think a man with his personality should be running the country but Clinton's history showed her to be the perfect description of a corrupt socialist. For him because of what he accomplished despite not only the unending attacks and smears, but in spite of his blunders - that and anyone who chose to do a modicum of research would have understood Biden was probably the worst choice imaginable among almost anyone over the age of 35.
With all of the information available to us on the majority of politicians, it's insane the amount of hate that Trump attracts. Why is that? As I think Robbie suggested, he's not only an outsider, but he isn't afraid to expose the corruption of the political elite and their bureaucratic masters and lackeys. He's not only a boor, he's a threat and that's far worse. They can't attack him for threatening their lives of deceit and corruption, so they use his personality and add endless creativity. Even though most all of their accusations have been proven fallacious, they persist and smart people inexplicably believe.
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Post by robbieratchet on Jul 14, 2022 15:15:54 GMT -5
RR - Chapter 11 is part of the bankruptcy code. If your business "files chapter 11" - you've filed for bankruptcy. The bankruptcy code (chapters 7, 11, and 13) offer protection to debtors from certain collection actions that creditors could normally take. Aside from actual bankruptcy filings, Trump "negotiated" with creditors under the threat of filing for bankruptcy. A very subtle difference, in my book. Trump was the poster child for the old maxim "If you owe the bank a million dollars and you fall on hard times, you have a big problem. If you owe the bank 100 million dollars and you fall on hard times, the bank has a big problem." I voted for Trump twice. The first time was harder than the second. The first time came down to the people he proposed to nominate to the Supreme Court. I was skeptical that he would keep his word, but I knew who Hillary would nominate. So I took a chance that Trump meant what he said, and that paid off in spades. But you have to admit the man has serious flaws. I hope he doesn't run again. From a practical standpoint, I'd prefer to support a candidate who is eligible to hold the office for two terms. The reason I split hairs over the bankruptcy crap is because it comes from haters as programmed bullet points. He's ran over 500 businesses, and a handful of them in the same industry went through the process. The same people who mindlessly give you the bankruptcy line will never question career bureaucrats printing trillions of dollars out of thin air and destroying our entire civilization. Words matter. Ironically, about his only positive legacy as president is the SCOTUS. He broke all of his major promises regarding immigration and "draining the swamp," and instead surrounded himself with the scum of Washington - Barr, Bolton, McMaster, Mattis, etc. For all his flaws, he was elected as an outsider who actually spoke about things Americans care about (as in, not 1/6 hearings). I don't want him to run, and I don't think he would beat DeSantis anyway. The only question is, what will DeSantis do about the inevitable ballot dumping in swing states? |
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md717
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Post by md717 on Jul 14, 2022 20:46:12 GMT -5
RR - Chapter 11 is part of the bankruptcy code. If your business "files chapter 11" - you've filed for bankruptcy. The bankruptcy code (chapters 7, 11, and 13) offer protection to debtors from certain collection actions that creditors could normally take. Aside from actual bankruptcy filings, Trump "negotiated" with creditors under the threat of filing for bankruptcy. A very subtle difference, in my book. Trump was the poster child for the old maxim "If you owe the bank a million dollars and you fall on hard times, you have a big problem. If you owe the bank 100 million dollars and you fall on hard times, the bank has a big problem." I voted for Trump twice. The first time was harder than the second. The first time came down to the people he proposed to nominate to the Supreme Court. I was skeptical that he would keep his word, but I knew who Hillary would nominate. So I took a chance that Trump meant what he said, and that paid off in spades. But you have to admit the man has serious flaws. I hope he doesn't run again. From a practical standpoint, I'd prefer to support a candidate who is eligible to hold the office for two terms. The reason I split hairs over the bankruptcy crap is because it comes from haters as programmed bullet points. He's ran over 500 businesses, and a handful of them in the same industry went through the process. The same people who mindlessly give you the bankruptcy line will never question career bureaucrats printing trillions of dollars out of thin air and destroying our entire civilization. Words matter. Ironically, about his only positive legacy as president is the SCOTUS. He broke all of his major promises regarding immigration and "draining the swamp," and instead surrounded himself with the scum of Washington - Barr, Bolton, McMaster, Mattis, etc. For all his flaws, he was elected as an outsider who actually spoke about things Americans care about (as in, not 1/6 hearings). I don't want him to run, and I don't think he would beat DeSantis anyway. The only question is, what will DeSantis do about the inevitable ballot dumping in swing states? I think we would probably agree on a broad spectrum of "the way things ought to be." (Famous book title . . . by the inimitable Rush Limbaugh. Whom I miss intensely.) But I think you're a little off-center or out-of-balance on a few things. I agree that words matter, else I wouldn't bother to engage on these points. Donald Trump is not an ethical or principled individual. This is evidenced by his self-serving business practices, his pursuit of dead-end election fraud issues, his poor selection of attorneys to represent him on that front, his cheating on every wife he ever had . . . the gross things he said about women, etc. ("Grab them by the pussy?" I'm no prude, but . . . it would never occur to me to string that sequence of words together.) Now I have to admit that you can't really blame him for the Marla Maples fling . . . I mean, holy SHIT . . . but then he cheated on Marla too. Remember when we said that Bill Clinton couldn't be trusted because his own wife couldn't trust him? Some of my Conservative compatriots argue that it takes a Donald Trump type to beat the unscrupulous Leftists that are our mortal enemies. But that dangerously flirts with Machiavellian "ends justify the means" morality. If we allow our enemies to turn us into them, from a moral point of view, we have truly lost the fight. Even if we win a battle or two in the short term. I think it's perfectly consistent to condemn Donald Trump's business practices AND condemn the politicians who support printing money. The two are not mutually exclusive. At the same time, it's fair to call out those who refuse to condemn both. With regard to the people Trump chose to serve in his administration - I think you're being overly critical of Trump in this aspect. I don't think he expected to win. That doesn't mean he wasn't trying to win, but I just think he thought he was a really long shot - and he was right about that. So suddenly, he won, and OMG - I have to figure this out, and I didn't really give it much thought before . . . right f'ing now! So how do you staff an entire administration when you have advisors who are part of the swamp, you don't have the contacts/experience to know who is who . . . what an incredible challenge. I think Barr was/is solid, the other three are swampists. Like you said. Finally, I don't understand why you say that Trump's SCOTUS legacy is "ironic." I'd be interested to hear more about that. But I think that there are other positive legacies - tax cuts, the Abraham accords, massive deregulation. So I'm glad that I voted for Trump, I'm glad that he beat Hillary, I'm glad that he did many of the things that he managed to do as President - but I'm ready for a new conservative standard bearer. I'm hoping for a Desantis candidacy, personally. |
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Post by nephillymike on Jul 14, 2022 21:20:15 GMT -5
It seems where we get our information and how willing we are to dig for counter narratives is the difference in political perspective. That, and looking at news not as separate, independent stories, but treating them as a jig saw puzzle. Mikey and I talked about this the other night, looking at J6 as a legitimate investigation considering what we know in retrospect of the other two Trump investigations is counter intuitive, especially in light of the Democrats literally stacking the committee with Trump haters including Republicans. "Counter intuitive" is probably too gentle a description, just as criticizing his presidency in a vacuum while dismissing the non-stop tag team assaults on him and his family by the media and the leftists. Looking at all of what the left has done in the past five years alone and tying it all together we have a pretty clear map of where they are headed. I too hope fervently that he doesn't run in 2024. I voted for him once and against Clinton once. Against Clinton because I didn't think a man with his personality should be running the country but Clinton's history showed her to be the perfect description of a corrupt socialist. For him because of what he accomplished despite not only the unending attacks and smears, but in spite of his blunders - that and anyone who chose to do a modicum of research would have understood Biden was probably the worst choice imaginable among almost anyone over the age of 35. With all of the information available to us on the majority of politicians, it's insane the amount of hate that Trump attracts. Why is that? As I think Robbie suggested, he's not only an outsider, but he isn't afraid to expose the corruption of the political elite and their bureaucratic masters and lackeys. He's not only a boor, he's a threat and that's far worse. They can't attack him for threatening their lives of deceit and corruption, so they use his personality and add endless creativity. Even though most all of their accusations have been proven fallacious, they persist and smart people inexplicably believe. Yes , good line Z, “news as a jigsaw puzzle”. Well put. During our discussion, he mentioned about the media being the bad guy etc. Which I agree with BTW. But, where I differ from most, is I think both sides are full of shit. I was a huge Fox “Fair and Balanced” guy back in the day. Watched for two hours every night, O’Reilly, Hannity and Greta. But over time, they became what the left media was before fair and balanced came to be. So how I get my news, is I normally read real clear politics or policy and they most times will have articles from opposing sides right there next to each other. Read and form an opinion. Z had not read up in the J6 hearings. Which for a man of his political knowledge would seem to be unbelievable. However, based upon what I know of my mostly far right teammates and friends, that is the norm. Only two of my ten fellow conservative teammates have read anything of the J6 hearings. See no evil, hear no evil. It be the same for liberals if the shoe was on the other foot. He and I made a deal. I asked him to provide me with a bunch of links for me to check out and in turn he agreed to get up to speed on the J6 hearings. I’ve seen the two emails with links and it looks like I’ll be busy for a while. I hope he reciprocates with putting in the same time. I mentioned this little story in our conversation. My now 28 year daughter is a bleeding heart liberal. She cried when a Trump beat Hillary and was mad because I laughed at her. I was intrigued by the left media having their ass handed to them. Fast forward to the fall of 2020. I’m watching TV in our living room and she is downstairs. I turn the TV off, and she comes in and puts the TV on and sees that I was watching Fox. She starts giving me crap about Fox and Trump blah blah blah. I said to her, “ hit the “last” button. So she hits the last button and sees that the prior channel I watched was CNN. I said to her, “ unlike your generation, I’m not afraid to hear different opinions because I know the truth is somewhere in the middle”. She stormed out of the room, told my wife “ I hate your husband”. LOL. One of my better parenting moments! If I were king for a day, I’d create another television station to have real discussion of politics and policy. Demand that issues are discussed from both sides and insist on civil discussion and debate of the issues. I think over time people would welcome it, although it would take time to rid the disease that is media loyalty today. Being a Republican, I wouldn’t care if they ripped me, just as long as it was insisted on being debated and fairly discussed. We need to rid America of the circle jerks that are the media today. People need to have the intellectual courage to hear and debate what others are saying. Off my soap box for now. Z had to go round up the sheep so our conversation was cut short after about 45 minutes. To be continued after we both do a little reading, although with all the links he gave me, it looks like more than a little !! |
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Post by nephillymike on Jul 14, 2022 21:24:35 GMT -5
The reason I split hairs over the bankruptcy crap is because it comes from haters as programmed bullet points. He's ran over 500 businesses, and a handful of them in the same industry went through the process. The same people who mindlessly give you the bankruptcy line will never question career bureaucrats printing trillions of dollars out of thin air and destroying our entire civilization. Words matter. Ironically, about his only positive legacy as president is the SCOTUS. He broke all of his major promises regarding immigration and "draining the swamp," and instead surrounded himself with the scum of Washington - Barr, Bolton, McMaster, Mattis, etc. For all his flaws, he was elected as an outsider who actually spoke about things Americans care about (as in, not 1/6 hearings). I don't want him to run, and I don't think he would beat DeSantis anyway. The only question is, what will DeSantis do about the inevitable ballot dumping in swing states? I think we would probably agree on a broad spectrum of "the way things ought to be." (Famous book title . . . by the inimitable Rush Limbaugh. Whom I miss intensely.) But I think you're a little off-center or out-of-balance on a few things. I agree that words matter, else I wouldn't bother to engage on these points. Donald Trump is not an ethical or principled individual. This is evidenced by his self-serving business practices, his pursuit of dead-end election fraud issues, his poor selection of attorneys to represent him on that front, his cheating on every wife he ever had . . . the gross things he said about women, etc. ("Grab them by the pussy?" I'm no prude, but . . . it would never occur to me to string that sequence of words together.) Now I have to admit that you can't really blame him for the Marla Maples fling . . . I mean, holy SHIT . . . but then he cheated on Marla too. Remember when we said that Bill Clinton couldn't be trusted because his own wife couldn't trust him? Some of my Conservative compatriots argue that it takes a Donald Trump type to beat the unscrupulous Leftists that are our mortal enemies. But that dangerously flirts with Machiavellian "ends justify the means" morality. If we allow our enemies to turn us into them, from a moral point of view, we have truly lost the fight. Even if we win a battle or two in the short term. I think it's perfectly consistent to condemn Donald Trump's business practices AND condemn the politicians who support printing money. The two are not mutually exclusive. At the same time, it's fair to call out those who refuse to condemn both. With regard to the people Trump chose to serve in his administration - I think you're being overly critical of Trump in this aspect. I don't think he expected to win. That doesn't mean he wasn't trying to win, but I just think he thought he was a really long shot - and he was right about that. So suddenly, he won, and OMG - I have to figure this out, and I didn't really give it much thought before . . . right f'ing now! So how do you staff an entire administration when you have advisors who are part of the swamp, you don't have the contacts/experience to know who is who . . . what an incredible challenge. I think Barr was/is solid, the other three are swampists. Like you said. Finally, I don't understand why you say that Trump's SCOTUS legacy is "ironic." I'd be interested to hear more about that. But I think that there are other positive legacies - tax cuts, the Abraham accords, massive deregulation. So I'm glad that I voted for Trump, I'm glad that he beat Hillary, I'm glad that he did many of the things that he managed to do as President - but I'm ready for a new conservative standard bearer. I'm hoping for a Desantis candidacy, personally. Well put Michael ! |
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Post by One on Jul 14, 2022 21:40:16 GMT -5
I haven't found a complete transcript, only the parts the committee released to the press. Send me a link if you have one. |
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Post by robbieratchet on Jul 18, 2022 11:58:56 GMT -5
 This is what 6 decades of "turning the other cheek" will get you. The "4-star admiral" on the left started his rise to power by moving his mother out of a nursing home during covid, while stuffing nursing homes full of covid carriers. Now he's the Assistant Secretary for Health. The freak on the right is Sam Brinton, a high ranking member of the Department of Energy. Oh, and he also has a fetish for puppies - google "Sam Brinton dogs" and check out some of the photos you see. Fun fact: these were our representatives for the Bastille Day party at the French ambassador's house. It's amazing the Chinese haven't taken Hawaii yet, just for the hell of it - but then again, why bother? In 10 years we'll be offering it to them while agreeing to call covid the "America Virus" in history books. You seem like genuinely good people, if a bit overly nostalgic. Specifically to md, you're simply living in a different century. History is very clear on where this is all headed, and you face people who hate you, and wake up every day seeking to impose their will on you. You simply want to be left alone. Ok fine, me too. But that's how we got here, and we're not getting out of it with kind words and voting. Frankly, I'd love to hear Machiavelli's two cents on the state of our civilization. Trump was elected because he spoke about issues Americans actually care about, and gave a voice to the people Washington DC hates - ie, us. I didn't think he would pick very good justices, but I didn't care as long as he did something about immigration and corruption. Hell, for a second I actually thought the Clintons might pay for some of their crimes! As it turns out, he broke all of his promises, yet gave us the SCOTUS for a generation. That's what I meant by "ironic." |
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md717
Pro Bowler
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Post by md717 on Jul 18, 2022 19:59:21 GMT -5
This is what 6 decades of "turning the other cheek" will get you. The "4-star admiral" on the left started his rise to power by moving his mother out of a nursing home during covid, while stuffing nursing homes full of covid carriers. Now he's the Assistant Secretary for Health. The freak on the right is Sam Brinton, a high ranking member of the Department of Energy. Oh, and he also has a fetish for puppies - google "Sam Brinton dogs" and check out some of the photos you see. Fun fact: these were our representatives for the Bastille Day party at the French ambassador's house. It's amazing the Chinese haven't taken Hawaii yet, just for the hell of it - but then again, why bother? In 10 years we'll be offering it to them while agreeing to call covid the "America Virus" in history books. You seem like genuinely good people, if a bit overly nostalgic. Specifically to md, you're simply living in a different century. History is very clear on where this is all headed, and you face people who hate you, and wake up every day seeking to impose their will on you. You simply want to be left alone. Ok fine, me too. But that's how we got here, and we're not getting out of it with kind words and voting. Frankly, I'd love to hear Machiavelli's two cents on the state of our civilization. Trump was elected because he spoke about issues Americans actually care about, and gave a voice to the people Washington DC hates - ie, us. I didn't think he would pick very good justices, but I didn't care as long as he did something about immigration and corruption. Hell, for a second I actually thought the Clintons might pay for some of their crimes! As it turns out, he broke all of his promises, yet gave us the SCOTUS for a generation. That's what I meant by "ironic." I AM a genuinely good people. Thanks for noticing. (Grammatic butchering intentional for humorous effect.) I can't speak for Mike and One . . . they may be assholes for all I know! (Actually I've known them both for many years, and they are genuinely good people. And one of them is really smart. I'm amusing myself with the thought of them arguing over which one of them I mean.) Richard Levine, by contrast, is a deplorable human being for the reason(s) you mentioned, among others. I had never heard of Sam Brinton, and I decline to engage in the Google search you recommended. Generally speaking I try to protect my brain from images/thoughts that are difficult to expunge. Once I made the mistake of watching an Isis decapitation video and it still haunts me. In reading your post it occurs to me that you might feel as if I'm not appropriately outraged by the offenses and assaults to all that is right and good brought about by those who are left and evil. I can even understand why you would think that since you don't know me and only extrapolate from my posts here. I am a man who shouts at my TV on a regular basis, most recently when Bernie said that climate change is "an existential threat." (No, it isn't. Bernie's flavor of leftism, on the other hand . . . may be.) I think we are equally angry, you and me. As I said, I think we would broadly agree on policy and "The Way Things Ought to Be." But we might disagree a bit on tactics. My life's motto is "integrity above all else." When I was a little boy my dad told me that "Character is what you have and what you do when no one is looking." It's my goal to do the right thing, the moral thing, each time . . . every time. I have fallen short of that ideal many times, nonetheless it remains the standard and the goal. So my point was . . . if it becomes necessary to become a cheater/stealer to beat the cheating stealers we oppose - then I'm not interested in descending to their level. Once I've done so - they've won, because at that point we're all cheaters/stealers . . . just possibly with different policy preferences. So at that point, the world is run by cheaters/stealers - and the original cheaters/stealers have won, even if their preferred policies are (temporarily) stymied. Once again I think you're being too hard on Trump when you say that he "broke all of his promises." It seems you're really bitter about that - and I guess I don't blame you if you hoped that he would restore the Constitutional Republic and drive the money changers from the temple. Perhaps your expectations were too high. It seems to me that he kept the promises he could, and tried very hard to keep other promises but was rebuffed by "the swamp." I think I understand now why you said keeping his SCOTUS promises was "ironic" - because you think he betrayed you on a wholesale level. But he actually did what he said he would do on the SCOTUS appointments, and didn't relent on the Kavanaugh nomination when anyone named BUSH would have run screaming from the room. For this he deserves a great deal of credit, in my view. So I would be interested to hear what you think we should do now. What is the proper stance, the proper behavior, for Conservatives who believe as you and I (apparently) do? in the words of the Presbyterian scholar and Christian apologist Francis A Schaeffer IV - "How Shall We Then Live?" To flesh it out a little further - in light of the facts upon which we agree, and based on the environment in which we find ourselves, how shall we now conduct ourselves in order to pursue the best possible outcome? |
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md717
Pro Bowler
Posts: 276
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Post by md717 on Jul 18, 2022 20:00:56 GMT -5
Oh, and by the way - that these two freaks would represent us on Bastille day? Seems entirely appropriate to me. The French Revolution is worthy of such scorn.
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After 5:30 - 6? Give me a heads up.
Back in the day I could only afford to let my Avalanche run all night (to piss Eyrie off) one night a week . . . now it's 24/7. Life is good!
After 5:30 - 6? Give me a heads up.