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Post by nephillymike on Aug 9, 2020 10:43:20 GMT -5
so I'm hearing many times about continued rent forgiveness.
It makes sense in some respects I suppose.
Two questions:
1. when 68% of the people who are unemployed make more on UC than when they work, does that factor in on the ability to pay rent?
2. If I'm a landlord that owns rental property and my tenants don't pay me, and I can't evict them, does the government pay my mortgage, or does the bank say I don't have to pay the mortgage?
I searched and I can't find how it impacts landlords.
anyone?
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Post by One on Aug 9, 2020 14:56:59 GMT -5
Honest landlords will be screwed if they forgive rent. There are people who invested wisely in real estate and this is their small business. We're not only talking about mortgage but livelihood. Here's a sampling of what happens with the UC "bonus": Here ...
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Post by nephillymike on Aug 9, 2020 16:16:47 GMT -5
What about landlords?
I knew the UC bonus was a crock. Have you heard anything about landlords?
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Post by One on Aug 9, 2020 18:33:58 GMT -5
No idea. I'm guessing they don't have a trade association or any kind of organized representation in a government. Just a guess. They're screwed.
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md717
Pro Bowler
Posts: 276
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Post by md717 on Aug 10, 2020 8:46:22 GMT -5
so I'm hearing many times about continued rent forgiveness. It makes sense in some respects I suppose. Two questions: 1. when 68% of the people who are unemployed make more on UC than when they work, does that factor in on the ability to pay rent? 2. If I'm a landlord that owns rental property and my tenants don't pay me, and I can't evict them, does the government pay my mortgage, or does the bank say I don't have to pay the mortgage? I searched and I can't find how it impacts landlords. anyone? I'm a landlord. (Although I prefer "real estate investor".) My wife and I own 10 properties, 14 total units - one of which is our residence. We "rescue" houses in our neighborhood that are at the point that even the flippers don't want them. (Structural issues, etc.) We employ one person full time to do the renovations. (I'm too damn old.) At the end of March, I was a basket case. I was terrified that most of my tenants wouldn't pay the rent - given the advertising of the moratorium on evictions. The District Justice courts were closed, so I couldn't evict anyone with or without a moratorium - so it infuriated me that they would advertise that fact. We could afford to pay the mortgages for a month or two, maybe three, with no rental income. But after that, we'd be in default. Everything we've built (literally and figuratively) over the past 20+ years was in jeopardy. To answer question #2 - there's also a moratorium on foreclosures. However, if you don't pay the mortgage you're just delaying the inevitable. If I had mass non-payment of rent, that would stack up and when the moratorium was lifted I could evict the tenant. Unlikely I would get the back rent, at least not in the short term. But I would have to pay the back mortgage payments or risk foreclosure. Hopefully the lender would work with me to get current, since they don't want to repo a property any more than I want to have it repo'd. To answer question #1 - yes, I think the stimulus helped my tenants pay the rent. Few of my tenants were unemployed - I looked like a genius in planning for a pandemic because most (if not all) of my tenants were "essential." (I didn't plan it that way . . . but it sure looks like I did!) So April 1 rolled around and if anything, rents came in faster than normal. I got every dollar that I was owed. That trend has continued to the present - all of August's rent is paid. That's five months straight. I was able to cut back on the Xanex at that point. (Mostly kidding.) I have had four tenants move out since the pandemic began. I have had no trouble re-renting those units at higher monthly rents than the previous tenant was paying. In addition, I've begun requiring two months' security deposit - the highest amount allowed by PA law. I refuse to rent to people who are presently unemployed, and favor those who are employed in an "essential" position. (I'm doing that on purpose from here on out.) The current moratorium on evictions expires August 31. I fully expect His Royal Majesty Wolf to extend it again. Fortunately I don't have anyone I'm waiting to evict at present. It's my understanding that I can still evict for lease violations that are unrelated to the payment of rent - property damage, illegal drugs, unauthorized pets or humans, etc. I'd like not to have to test that understanding, and so far that has not been necessary. I've always been nervous at the beginning of every month, due to the huge amount of dollars we have flowing out the door to pay mortgages. "Nervous" went to "frantic" in late March . . . and has since settled down to closer to the normal level of nervous. Through some combination of luck, good management, and government largesse - we're in better financial shape now than we would have been sans pandemic. Amongst property owners, I think we are most likely in the minority on that score. Over the years, I've often thought about shifting my focus to commercial properties - I'm VERY glad I never got around to acting on that!!
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md717
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Posts: 276
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Post by md717 on Aug 10, 2020 8:54:02 GMT -5
No idea. I'm guessing they don't have a trade association or any kind of organized representation in a government. Just a guess. They're screwed. We do in fact have numerous trade associations and representation in government. I'm not a member of any of them - but I'm reconsidering that. One of the trade associations sued the Governor for his moratorium on evictions, and lost at the State Supreme Court level. I'm unaware as to whether they've appealed to a higher court at this point. I would be watching that case much more closely if I had numerous tenants withholding rent.
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Post by nephillymike on Aug 11, 2020 19:58:38 GMT -5
Hey MD,
I’m glad that things are going well. I remember how frantic you were early on. That explains it.
So if most landlords are doing well, then what protections are there for the Banks?
Serious question.
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md717
Pro Bowler
Posts: 276
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Post by md717 on Aug 24, 2020 6:36:26 GMT -5
Hey MD, I’m glad that things are going well. I remember how frantic you were early on. That explains it. So if most landlords are doing well, then what protections are there for the Banks? Serious question. I know a few other landlords, and they're not doing quite as well . . . but they're not dying, either. Put it this way - I'd rather be the owner of residential rental property than a bar, restaurant, or gym. (The number of landlords I personally know and speak to regularly by no means constitute a representative sample.) As for the banks - I'm not an expert on that topic by any means. However, I believe that most residential real estate mortgages are sold to Fanny Mae or Freddie Mac. By "most" I mean something like 90%. They then either hold the mortgages themselves or bundle them into Mortgage Backed Securities. (Sound familiar?) Fannie and Freddie are both "private" shareholder-owned entities at this point, I believe. Banks are a little further removed from a mass crisis in non-payment of rent because property owners typically have deeper pockets (and access to bigger lines of credit) than tenants do. So if we had a majority of tenants withhold rent from us, we could have continued to make mortgage payments for a handful of months. The various banks that finance our properties may never have noticed. As for what protections the banks may have - I really don't know, other than in Fannie and Freddie's cases being deemed "too big to fail." The ultimate backstop is the taxpayer, I'm afraid.
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